Yes we do.

The Dragons came to Solstheim to spank him for being a naughty boy, he fled to Apocrypha to escape his destruction. He then struck a deal, as so many do (with the various Daedric Princes) for power and knowledge. In return, he serves Herma-Mora. But he can't even do that right...

I haven't gotten that far yet so I won't offer up an answer for the OP just yet.

They intentional leave it ambiguous, storn even say's its extremley odd that he was a dragon-priest yet he was dragonborn.

Well im not rushing it and I am about 15-16 hours into it. I think you rushed it without realising.

Oh right, my bad.

Still, you get my point. He's rather vague and ambiguous for a major villain of a DLC. I mean we basically know more about Harkon.

Is this in terms of gameplay or character? Can't put him in the same sentence as Dagoth Ur from a character standpoint. In gameplay, Dagoth Ur was a scrub.

Miraak still beats Alduin though. So there's that.

I am not saying that it's not lovecraftian in nature. I am saying that this is only a speck compared to what H.P. really saw in his dreams and wrote on paper. And one thing that distances HM from the Old Gods of Cthulhu mythos is that they don't care a bit about mortals. In Cthulhu mythos we are like atoms to them. Summoning a window to see Yog-Sothoth can be enlighting not because his that kind of guy selling knowledge across the universe (HM). It's like peaking to see the headline of a newspaper that that guy reads in front of you. And that guy is a cosmic montrosity that will kill you just by turning his head and saying "huh?".

You got it all wrong!!!
He wont kill you...he'll just drive insane forever and condem you to a mental asylum

Did anyone notice that when fighting Miraak he talks about how he can take on Alduin.... AND Harkon? I was like wow. I like how Bethesda have tied Skyrim and Dawnguard into it.

When did he mention Harkon? I already killed the hell out of both of them, so maybe that's it?

He could...good lord he could. You do now how powerful he is?

Well I was fighting him and I had the subtitles on and when I heard Harkon i looked straight to the subtitles. This gave me shivers to know that he knew what i had been up too. Maybe you were too busy trying to kill him. It was awesome.

Possible. Or maybe Harkon just doesn't rate very high in my subconscious.

Even if you dont think him to be a good villian, he is quite an interesting character

I'm going to put my neck on the line here and claim that he doesn't have Dragonrend, ergo he cannot take Alduin. And if he had Dragonrend, he wouldn't have needed to flee in the first place. Floor the dragons and go to town with his cultists at his side.

Harkon would be in a world of trouble.



Yup. So far it doesn't seem like they've expanded the Dragon Cult stuff much at all or even the gift of Dragonborn, which given the theme should have happened IMO.

Has anyone tried talking to Paarthurnax about Miraak? Maybe he knows something, though my guess is they probably didn't add dialogue for him.

That's all I really want. I don't care if he is super evil.. I just want him to be interesting and somewhat personable.

So far, I'm at the point where and I haven't found much things about him.. but that makes him seem pretty fascinating. The whole traitor folk tale thing is cool, and my assumptions look to be correct that the Skaal were basically cut from the same cloth as the dragon priests. I can imagine that his story will be expanded later.

he is very powerful indeed.
im wondering how exactly he became immortal, and if it has anything to do with any of the other supposedly immortal people we have seen in the series.
does anyone else notice that he could potentially be drawing power from worship in the same way that the first tribunal did?

That is not what I ment....I wrote clearly (just using an anology) that we in the eyes of the Outer gods are less than nothing. And their presence is enough to kill us or drive us insane. Willet kills Curwen just by reversing his spell. Curwen used the "head of the dragon" and Willtet used the "tail of the dragon", both symbols of Yog-Sothoth. His personal alpha and omega as you could say (I even think that this was Lovecraft cleverly mocking the bible) . Read your Lovecraft better. Also:

"It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self — not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence's whole unbounded sweep — the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH, and which has been a deity under other names; that which the crustaceans of Yuggoth worship as the Beyond-One, and which the vaporous brains of the spiral nebulae know by an untranslatable Sign. "

So HM can try but In Lovecraftian universe he could be compared to Cthulhu at best.

And Lovecraft himself repeatedly said that the Old Gods are not evil. They are chaotic,entropy incarnate, not carring and endless like the Universe itself. He was a pesimist and an atheist. He mocked the ideal of moralitty and good vs evil struggle that we have invented.


On a side note. What I saw on various videos on YT with Lovecraftian vibe is:

Lurkers are clearly deep ones.
Seekers can be a cross reference between Cthulhu and The Elder things.

Looks like Miraak is going to get some love from none other then mister Mk

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1428772-we-need-an-entire-novel-written-about-miraak/

^This

I dont get to play DB DLC before after christmas (PC user) so I cant defend or trashtalk Miraak. But as for Jack - he was indeed an awesome character. Jack was so well written that even if you dont like borderlands 2, chasing Jack ALONE would be enough reason to complete it With lines like "Kill these savages" refering to innocent civillians, and the "Im the victim, you are the evil vault hunter" attitude guilt tripping you at every turn... Jack was truly a masterfully written badguy that proved even a "simple psycho" can have very deep personality.

If I were being honest, I would have liked to learn more about him. He is interesting, and my poor lvl 4 character was terrified of everything he seemed to be, but that is never really built upon. Does anyone know if the dlc added extra dialogue with Alduin or Parth where we can talk about the first Dragonborn?

I feel that if we could just learn why he turned, rather than just having it left up in the air, he'd have a little more weight to the final fight with him.

Also, Herma Mora made out like a bandit with this dlc. New champion who'll probably stay loyal as long as there are black books to find, got the secrets of the Skaal, his influence nearly covered the entire island for a time allowing him to learn goodness knows how much from the people under his power, and all the while I'm sure he was just sitting back laughing as he played everyone for fools.

first, loved borderlands 2 (ima make statues of me, kicking you, in the junk. . .make like fifteen of those sum [censored]es and put em everywere)

second, thought miraak was awsome. he seemed very much like a TES PC like us, above average power and clever, could kill dragons and got some power from a deadric prince. . .but his story went wrong. . .the end left me actually wondering if i was a good person or not? everything you do you think "this is the right thing im the good guy" but in the end when good people are dead and deadric prince is happy you have to step back and wonder if you should re-evaluate your decision making paradigm. . .

im glad he was dragonborn too, most things these days seem to think you have to be fighting some big straight up evil no nonsence monster (alduin) but fighting another person very similar to you, in more ways then one, and having better skill over something you thought was unique to you (the voice) is very cool and makes you think. I didnt care about being the dragonborn till this DLC now i cant wait to get more shouts.

I don't know, he kind of just came off as an [censored]. I don't think they spent nearly enough time developing him. There are plenty of other TES villains I'd place over him.

Nah, I think he talks about Hakon not Harkon. You know, Hakon One-Eye. I know when I was fighting him he said something along the lines that he (Hakon) and the others came to him to ask for help with Alduin. Can't remember exactly since it was pretty confusing with all the things going on and his dialogue monologue kept cutting off.
But I know for sure he mentions Hakon.

I don't have DG on the Xbox though, so who knows...

Thought I'd revive this thread with my thoughts (now that I've done the Main Quest)

Like lorelai said above, he definitely says Hakon and not Harkon. Also, the Lost Legacy side quest also expands a bit on Miraak's history: He was defeated by a Dragon Priest called Vahlok many moons ago.