It's kinda sad to say but I miss the days when games came on cartridges or discs and consoles didn't have internet connections.. back in the good old days when software HAD to be tested before release since there was no way to fix afterwards..

I really only remember one game I played much that had showstopping non-fixable bugs and that was Drakan for PS2...

It's like back with Oblivion and the superb amount of bugs it had and the criticism that Bethesda got for Gamebryo engine and the bad press it got back then.. so Bethesda changed the name and made a few tweaks to distance themselves from that thinking that people who have followed TES since Arena would forget that easily..

I think not..

Although I generally like Bethesda games, but repeatedly releasing unfinished pieces of f'uhking (IPA: f\:02c8\:028ck\:026a?) garbage as a finished product (something Bethesda is not alone in doing) really SHOULD be reported to the Better Business Bureau.. I've really had it with companies who entice you to pay for stuff in advance by making sure that's the only way you get certain things, only to then skr'oo (IPA: skr\:02c8u) you after they have gotten your money..

So generally a broken game wont kill you but can you imagine unfinished cars being sold on the market?.. And even if they don't KILL you they can cause havoc on your system and damage peoples livelyhood..

The complexity of software today will obviously mean that there will be some bugs, but not this amount and not the kind of bugs that will ruin the game for pretty much everyone. Bugs should be the exception, not the standard!

The increasing frequency this happens these days is, and lets be honest here.. does not exactly encourage me to actually pay for anything. I could have bought Skyrim on PS3 but went for Steaming pile of......on PC since well generally this kind of game is best on PC even if they have consolized the game somewhat...

When It was released Skyrim worked generally fine for me.., that is, I hardly had any crashes and even when I did it was rarely an issue since I'm a frequent saver. Sure theres tons and tons and tons of broken quests I can't do because I kept running into items before I was supposed to in a game where one of the main boasts has been how open the game is and how free you are to explore (forgetting to mention it actually breaks the game).... but at least it would run..

Then came 1.2 and totally ruined everything.. I've seen things from dragons flying backwards or upside down. Streams being empty or flowing the wrong way. Gameworld that has been turned upside down. Items disappearing when placed. A back button that stops functioning mid-game at random, constant sudden exits to desktop (CTD) and other messes..

So yea..I hope customers around the globe gets in line to spank your 'as (IPA: \:02c8?s) for not testing stuff properly..

And if you need an employee dedicated to testing, I volunteer.. at least that way when I play I can expect sh'eet (IPA: \:0283\:02c8it) to be broken and not have it come up as a nasty surprise..

Also.. next time you make a game I expect an actually NEW engine.. not just a renamed one..



.. and I also EXPECT that as an absolute MINIMUM we get some free DLC for suffering this mess of yours.. and by that I mean some decent DLC.. not just a patch that makes the game run like it should..

(and if you need game ideas for new franchises, I have that too but I expect at least a free copy of the game..)..

PK

There are only two explanations as to how you could possibly say this:

1. You've never played a game before 2005.

2. Your nostalgia clouds your judgement.

Seriously, search YouTube for glitches and bugs in your favorite retro games, you might be surprised to find how many were overlooked and made it onto the cart/disc.

LOL i remember those days well & yes there were a lot of bugged games

But back then here was not Internet as it is to day. So the only way to contact the Softwear House was via the postal system hence ya just put up with the bugs

Been playing games since the late 70's and I never said they were bug free, I remember lots of glitches and bugs you could trigger back on NES for example, BUT it was usually not critical bugs that would completely break the game. Often it was glitches you could do funny stuff with and had to do pretty specific stuff in order to trigger....

Pokemon: Misingo (sp?)
Mario 3: quick flutes to last level

Jut 2 that's come to mind

3 times... 3 TIMES I played all the way through Phantasy Star 2 only to get to Mother Brain (The Final boss) and have the game crash on me. This was on two different copies of the cartridge for the Sega Genesis. After about 95 total hours of gameplay!!!! I have never to this day seen the end of that game. I refuse to watch youtube videos of it. So don't tell me that there were no bugs in older games. You're delusional.

Pork'y'mon was never my thing but ya.. skipping to the end was usually classified as a cheat, not a bug.... and you could still actually play the game to the end if you wanted to..

When I was little, I remember my friend dropping a 5lb weight on my NES when I was playing the Rocketeer 'and it glitched', but the game was 'laggy' because it didn't engage me. But I played it because my moms bought it for me for Xmas and didn't know no better of what was 'cool', and all of the comfort compelled me to play it for her. The stickers didn't help either though... those glow in the dark stars go on the ceiling, not inside the game cartridge!

And later yet, I had a falling out with a guy because his 'super slam 2' game BROKE my SNES I saved up for with dimes. It could run Weaponlords just fine. At the time I thought it was tainted since his family had problems (dad had a heart attack), took me a long time before I understood computers.


I have no idea what kids must be going through nowadays, immersed more deeply in electronics with little hope to catch up and claim control over the utilities of their fore-bearers.

I see lots of TES posters say stuff like 'Bueller?' and it cracks me up lol (like anyone gets that!). I can picture them playing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne9RZOmOjdk and such as tykes lol.

I agree with you mate. There are bugs in old games, and some game breaking ones to. I remember a 64 game, can't remember which one, needed a cartridge "patch", or something like that.

Devs these days are a lot lazier and rely on post dev patches thanks to the Internet. Even console games have suffered because of them using the Internet.

I understand your point but when my parents purchased an Atari 2600 which came with Combat and Space Wars, those games were slightly less complex than the games we have today. Don't get me wrong. I don't think it means that companies deserve a pass just because something is complicated and I think there needs to be a demand for a higher quality standard but the potential for problems is exponential compared to the cartridge days.

I like this post. I don't know how accurate it is, but that last few games I've played for the PC have been nightmare buggy. However, I recall playing the first Elder Scroll game on my brother's PC in college. I had to do tons of learning to get it to run properly. I'm not sure how buggy it was, but it was complicated to get going. Well worth it.

Many games for the Amiga were buggy. They would just freeze for no reason and we'd have to restart. The worst bug was this game called Garrison which was a cheap version of Gauntlet. It advertised 128 levels. My brother and I got to level 196, but the game never ended. There was no final feeling of beating the game... no victory. Just level after level after level.

Three games I have purchased through Steam:

Test Drive II: Terrible implementation. Most common steering wheel in the PC racing world is not recognized. Glitches abound. But it's fun and I play it.

Civilization V: More complaints about the launch of that game than just about anything. Less glitchy, but so many game play issues... stuff just not balanced or thought out. AI that was moronic at best. Several patches later, I guess it's better, but I haven't played.

now Skyrim. The first game I've ever purchased at midnight of the release just to be one of the first to play it. I thought it was fantastic. It had some UI issues, but the gameplay was stellar, so I didn't know what all the complaints were about. Now with this new 1.2 patch, I'm scared to play. I don't want to ruin the game I have, so I'm just idling until the storm passes.

As for cartridge games, I think you have a point. If something cannot be upgraded or fixed after release, it is definitely more likely that it has been tested and retested. These Steam releases just have a lazy feel to them. If it works great, if not, we'll fix it later. It's a crappy business model.

I loved the "Karen/Dog" bug in harvest moon 64, where you could keep showing her your dog and get a pink heart in less than an hour XD

One game tears this whole argument apart.

SUPERMAN 64!

and usually if you got a RANDOM glitch (one that wasnt known and reproducible without going through 10 precise steps) all u had to do is take the cart out and blow in it, or bang on it a couple times and it would work just fine!

yes, i do miss those days. good times

Seriously, this should just be a damn online game... since it demands online to activate. Save the world a whole lot of hastle...

again.. with the people mentioning one game as if that means my statement is wrong..

I never said there were NO bugs, but it sure as hell made companies test more.. especially high profile games..also.. Superman64 hardly qualifies as a game, a bad joke perhaps but certainly not a game..

Imagine Nintendo releasing a new Zelda with the level of bugginess that Skyrim has.. I can hear the class-action lawsuit bells ring loud and clear..


and sure games today are a lot more complex, but they also have a lot bigger teams working on them and better resources. Many games back then were made pretty much in some guys bedroom.. I don't really see that being true for Bethesda..

there is no doubt that the abillity to fix games after release has generally had a bad impact on games..

It's quite visible on a per-company basis too. Some release games that hardly ever get patches, while other companies are a patchfest of intergalactic dimensions..

Guess what.

Games are bigger now, systems are much more varied and the technical side of things is much...much more complex.

Nostalgia is all good and well, but its completely irrelevant in any and ALL arguments.

I guess I was just lucky. I gamed on:

PC: 1992-1994 (switched to consoles temporarily)
Sega Genesis: 1994-1997
PS1: 1997-2001
PS2: 2002-...I still play my old PS2 occasionally
PC Again: 1997-Now

Before the days of patches, I honestly can only remember a few game breaking bugs:

-Sega games often locked up for no reason.
-Dark Cloud 2 would lock up if you left the dungeon between two of the floors. I think it was between floor 2 and 3 in the sewers. I sent the game back a couple of times before realizing that I had to go straight from floor 2 to 3 without stopping.
-Bugs from using cheat codes/ Gameshark. I guess these don't count, though . Funny how my games are less buggy now that I've stopped using cheats .

Games were definitely less buggy back in those days, but I like the patch freedom on the PC. No more sending games back to the manufacturer, only to get a copy back with the same bugs .

go buy a Wii...

Now I will agree with that sentiment because now we can say besides cartridges being the limiting factor we now have the internet. So we are really only looking at about 15 years to where this has been a possibility. Even PC games from the mid 80s through almost the mid 90s were never patched (or rarely). Anyway, that's something I agree with. I think the recent changes in business models and related, shortened development times are also contributing factors.

"
-Sega games often locked up for no reason.
"

I lost a friend to the Sega Master System... Lol just kidding I visited him sometimes but I owned the croc ' adile ' mile slip n slide, and the other kid had Ice Hockey (and a personal computer with chess battle...) and huge comfy pillows...


I guess they can't make marketable kid-proof computers anymore. It's weird to me that it's like 6 years since a console come out. Windows 8 seems aimed at the 'mobile phone' crowd... I guess I should get a mobile phone or the other things with lame games but be a badass human

reminds me, I will admit I more than once bashed the hell out of my C64 with my Tac-2 joystick when I died in some game a few too many times like in Giana Sisters or failed some of the pixel precision jumps in The Last Ninja, and even tho sometimes the keys popped out, you could just stuff them back in and they would work just fine.. (by the time I got my first Amiga I had calmed down somewhat...)

and the few times it actually "broke", it was just a 10 cent fuse inside it that was available at any gas station that had blown..

I also more than once spilled something on a floppy and ended up using a razorblade to slice the plastic sleeve open, remove the actual "disk" inside, wash it with soap and water and after letting it dry, be able to read it again just fine..

these days if you even so much as look in the wrong way at a disc for your gamesystem the wrong way, it's likely to fail..

and overheating was just unheard of..

Nope. This just doesn't apply to what the OP was saying at all.

I still have a hole in my NES controller where I bashed it with a pen.

I never sold any of my old systems... still have my ColecoVision and my Atari 2600 to boot.

I'll see your ColecoVision and Atari 2600 and raise you an Intellivision, Odyssey 2 and a Vectrex.