level cap sounds like a silly thing to miss in a single player game, but most rpg have it for a reason. picking a build for a char use to be a big deal in fallout. for every perk you pick you know you are giving up something else, that make them infinitely more valuable then the perks in fallout 4 because in fallout 4 you have infinite perk points and everyone can end up being master of all trades perfect superman.

I don't mind it so much because I made a test cheat character at level 50 and I still had lots of perks I wanted and I only added a few extra SPECIAL points. I will be happy when someone disables the health gain per level ala Project Nevada or FWE.

Oh no. I despise level caps. Can't stand them.

And it takes you something like 260+ levels to become the God-Emperor of the Commonwealth. That's ridiculously long hours of grind to have every single perk and SPECIAL maxed (to 11, if you meticulously avoid the SPECIAL bobbleheads for extra max-maxing).

I fail to see the problem here. You still have to plan out your build because it WILL take you hundreds of hours to fill in the rest of the chains unless you cheat (or exploit by, say, placing a metric ton of wires and other junk in your settlements until you gain levels).

Bobbleheads won't take you above 10, so can't get 11, afaik. Which is why you never take a 10 in any attribute since a bobblehead would take you there, else it is going to waste.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but been that way in other Fallout games.

As for level cap, yes please. Let me make hard choices!

Bobblehead will take you above 10. However, the gain from 10->11 is not as big than 8->9, for example.

If so, I stand corrected then. They are straying from other Fallout games regarding this tho, where 10 have been max, and a bobblehead was a waste if your attribute was already maxed.

Which is good, because they're no longer useless at high levels.

As for "hard choices" - try going thirty or forty levels without taking a single weapon damage OR survivability perk on a higher difficulty. You'll see what I mean about planning a build.

How long have you played the game? I've logged 3.5 entire days into one character and I've only just reached level 50... there are so many perks I haven't picked yet, even ones I expected I would have picked by now. And I've gone through almost all of the on-repeating quest content in the game. And there's still plenty of stuff my character can't do, too.

I always said this before the game came out, and now that I've played it there isn't a doubt in my mind, we do not have to worry about our characters eventually becoming masters-of-all trades.

Eh what? Why should I have to gimp myself in order to simulate hard choices? The game is a shooter now, so not taking any weapon damage / surviability perks doesn't make sense, and has nothing to do with hard choices. Hard choices is when you have to make a decision between one route or another, because you can't have cake and whistle at the same time. Having a level cap, restricts what builds you can have, which, in my book, is a good thing. No one, should be mastering everything, that's absurd, from a gaming perspective (e.g. replayability)

I had forgotten that there's no level cap in this game so I have been playing as though there is one. I'm glad that there isn't because at level 29 I haven't even started the main quest at Diamond City yet, but now I have scope to build my character further when I had expected there to be just one more perk.

But I could just stop adding perks after level 30 if I wanted a level cap. The extra HP wouldn't be a game-breaker.

That would be better than asking for a level cap to be imposed on other people who don't want one and who paid for a game that said "no level cap!" in the PR material.

This game has a soft cap of around 50 if I have not completed the MQ by then, I will do so when I hit 50. So no hard level cap is not a problem for me.

I don't miss the level cap because it's probably unlikely I'll ever get to the point where I have all the perks I want for my build, let alone every other perk as well. According to my plan (and Yes, I have a plan) I'll be Level 122 by the time I've grabbed all the perks I want for this build. I doubt there's enough content in the game to get me that far. Even if there is (when DLC's are factored in) there won't be much left to do once I reach that point so it'll be onto a new build.

Realistically no level cap doesn't mean you WILL get every perk. It just means you COULD get every perk, which is a nice option in my opinion.

No, I'm not talking about gimping yourself. I'm talking about, for instance, choosing between a gun perk and the next rank of a crafting perk. The game is not just as hooter; it has extensive crafting and base building systems that most certainly require intensive level investment to get the most out of. I know that in the early game I didn't feel much incentive to go for gun damage or health over ranks of hacking, lockpicking, or Gun Nut/Science - but later, when the enemies started getting tougher, that was ample cause to regret not dropping any points whatsoever into a weapon skill. And yet, what I picked was perfectly suitable for the way I was playing the game at a very early point when enemies couldn't keep up with an ordinary doublecranked laser musket shot to the head.

And again - it takes untold hours to get to the absolute maximum in this game. Master of All is not 'easy' to attain in Fallout 4 without cheating, not even if you finish radiant quests nonstop.

TL;DR, without cheating, in a practical sense you're not going to hit everything-maxed (level 26X, I believe - yes, two hundred sixty upward) unless you play the game constantly until the Ultimate Edition drops or something.

I'd rather not have a level cap as long as it takes a very long time to reach a point of getting all the perks. I'm only at level 32 and I can see it would take forever on the same character to get everything, so it's unlikely I would do it. I'm going to guess that at a certain point it will take forever to level up as well. I like that I can if I want though.

Eventually maybe bit practically even for someone like me who will sink 1000s of hours into the game, not really

In general I don't mind level caps at all (I certainly preferred FO3 when it was 20 rather than 30), but I'm not missing it yet in this game. As others have mentioned, I'm lv29 and feel like I don't have remotely enough perk points just for the ones I'm interested in, let alone all the perks that don't fit this character.

Soft cap is around 50-60. If anyone legitimately gets every perk in the game and gets like level 275, color me amazed. It won't happen.

Edit: Source: I've discovered every location and done every side quest, along with tons of crafting. Landed level 65.

Who is forcing you to level up? You know you don't have to level up if you don't want to right?

Uhm, again another example where a person has no self control. I mean the power is in your hands not to level up. I said it before, will say it again. It's becoming pretty sad when people say the game should be this way or that way, when in fact it can be played exactly how the person wants it.

You want a level cap? Then stop leveling. Who is forcing you to level. We complain a lot that Bethesda doesn't give us options. Again, Bethesda gives us an option that a lot of us want, but YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO. Fallout 4 gives us an option when and where to level. We are not automatically forced to level up like Fallout 3. We don't level up automatically when we sleep like in Oblivion (actually I forget what game it was from Bethesda been so long since I played that way.)

Want to stop leveling at 20 or 30, then do it. Don't level no more. If you can't do it, you have no one but yourself if you can't limit yourself when playing a single player game.

Want to play Dead is Dead, do it. Some people think this is the way the game must be played or should be played. Want to play where you need food and water and what not? Do it. Set the limits yourself. Why do you need Bethesda to set the limits for you? Don't have the will power or control to do it? It's not Bethesda's part that just speaks more of the person who can't do it. It speaks more of the persons character than anything.

When you set yourself to level up to 20 or 30 or what ever you want, your Picks you choose will really mean a lot. And just to show us that you are not at hypocrite, play with a level 20 cap or 30, AND DON'T GO OVER because that will prove that you really don't want a level cap and will prove that Bethesda was correct in what they did.

I never wanted a level cap to begin with! Now that I have it I love the fact that I have 1000s of hours of game play ahead of me just for 1 character alone.

If you are looking for a level cap, I would recommend that you try a Hard Core character. What that means is if your character dies, then you immediately delete and start your next character. That in its own right is challenging enough for anyone.

But for the 80% of the game you are level capped, and you do have to prioritize all perks and all attributes...

You don't make any sense.

I never come close to maxing my characters, cap or no. I topped off around level 40 or so in Skyrim. Max level isn't something that happens naturally during normal play, you need to grind for it.

You are indeed correct but Bethesda often uses level scaling monsters/mobs in thier RPG's so it challenge usually stays on par with your character AND if you spread your points too thin early on the game can get to be impossible (at least in older titles like Oblivion and FO3) also the perks have several points you need to put into them to max them out (which I am sure youre aware of) IMO it is also mostly implimented for those who want to keep characters youre attached to have more run time rather then "oh I maxed this character now I am bored" types. You can best bet that the reason they remove lvl caps are for a purpose and have other things in mind especially DLC

I'm really enjoying the no level cap, I totally hated the limited 30 levels we squeezed out of fallout 3. All ended to quickly.

Nothing wrong with that, as long as it works for the game. FO3 was much better at a 20 cap than 30.... because the game wasn't designed for lv30, they added all those bullet sponge enemies, and the perk & skillpoint balance went all out the window. So sure - my first FO3 char probably capped out after 12-15 hours, and I played it a total of 75 hours. Not a problem.

edit: the only change I would have made to FO3's leveling would have been to increase the XP needed at lv11-20. The 20 cap was fine, we just got there too fast.

But FO4 is clearly balanced differently, so it's fine. At level 20, I barely had enough perk points to be starting to define a build.

(Honestly, I've never understood the "There's no point in continuing to play if I can't keep leveling" view, when people have mentioned it in level cap threads. The whole "well, I hit the cap, so I retired that character even though there was still so much to do" concept boggles my mind. )