No. Terrible idea. I want an agile, acrobatic character without having to use magic.

Again, this is a fantasy game. Earth rules do not apply. If you don't like it, don't focus on the skill... it's that simple. Where's the sense in whining about something you wouldn't even have to use?

That comes down to the "choice" argument. If you use them as frequently as intended, they wouldn't go up so fast, the same with acrobatics. Though athletics there is no choice. But then there is no choice with speech in Skyrim, or even lockpicking if you want to open any chests in dungeons.

So fine, let your character be agile and acrobatic. Let them implement something to show that, great. But don't try to justify an "agile and acrobatic" character jumping 40 feet in the air because he has mad skillz, yo.




Oh boy, here comes out that word again, whining. Where's that thread about the most overused words on the Skyrim forums?

And Earth rules don't apply? Wonderful! I want to phase through walls and walk on air,without the aid of magic! We should implement this ASAP.

You can't without magic. But why should that mean you can't get faster and better at jumping without magic? Not every impossible feat in a fantasy game needs to be explained with magic. There doesn't need to be a corresponding magic effect for everything that is impossible in our world, yet possible on Nirn.

I support the idea of realism in a fantasy game to the extent, but it would seem natural to just assume the people of Nirn are just somewhat stronger than the people of Earth when it comes to jumping leg-strength. In the same way that cats are in real life. However, I do agree that after a point, the height to which you can jump starts to look silly. That's where climbing comes in!

I never said that you shouldn't. I said that implementing it as a full-fledged skill is unreasonable.



And there is a point where performing impossible feats prevents the suspension of disbelief.

The removal of acrobatics was done to appeal to a wider audience? Oh really.

Skyrim is made of mountains. Now the casual player cannot climb them very well without acrobatics, super speed and strength. These things the hard core complained about because they made the game 'too easy' and wasn't 'real'.

We now have a Fallout character's movements in a fantasy realm where it never was before. If I wanted to move like a Fallout character I'd play Fallout.

Acrobatics was a wonderful asset. It was FUN. Bethesda removed FUN for no logical reason.

The people who say they can climb the mountains in Skyrim just fine do not really care very much about climbing them. At any rate, removing acrobatics was just wrong.


I will miss the joy of free unrestrained movement, of boulder hopping and of climbing slopes that early in the game were off limits, and later were simply a joy.

Why remove an asset that brought so much fun?

I don't want to jump 40 feet in the air. :confused: I want to jump slightly higher than average, take less falling damage, and be able to get on top of buildings (preferably through climbing rather than jumping upward).



As far as deviating from Earth reality goes, being able to run faster and jump higher than a human isn't quite on the same level as phasing through walls or walking on air. Again, the 40 feet thing is a gross exaggeration people like you always use in arguments over acrobatics. As far as i'm concerned, the only people who ended up with characters that could jump 40 feet in the air in previous games were people who knowingly exploited the skill somehow.

I don't really care that it's been removed, but they could have implemented a tree for it. Merge the Lockpicking/Pickpocket and created a Acrobatics tree. If they wanted to remove speed in favour of sprinting they still could have used Acrobatics. A multi-step perk that increases Stamina-Sprint ratio, a perk for dodge rolls, higher jumping/less fall damage, incremental increase in max Stamina. Things like that could have worked out nicely.

ONe more thing- the complaint about jumping 40 feet is unreal; but carrying a sword weighing 80 pounds is just great realism?

Great, then lets make it happen! I'm all for it, as long as they don't bring them back as skills.




It's not a gross exaggeration; acrobatics in past games has allowed you to do this.





Oh great, the "getting a skill to 100 means you exploited it" argument. Never seen that one, before. :rolleyes:

I know your a Morrowind fan, but with 100 acrobatics in Morrowind and carrying nothing I think you can jump that high, or even more. And the jump effect in Morrowind made absurd difference even with just a few points.

i never used the acrobatics skill, i have no interest in jumping real high. however, why would it impact you at all if it was a game feature. this is the problem right here. you think the skill is worthless, so you say it shouldn't be in the game. well don't use the skill, like i haven't for all previous TES games. if you don't like something don't use it, but complaining that it shouldn't be in the game is whats ruining all these great games.

Yeah, but no one's specified how much they'd like to increase their acrobatics. So, just to a point that doesn't break your immersion. Problem solved.

Even if they wanted the old 15 foot vertical, it's not as immersion breaking as npcs who you've know for 60 hours introducing themselves every time you pass them...

I never said that the concept was worthless. You're strawmanning me. The implementation of a run speed and jump height variance as a skill, however, is worthless.




That's your opinion.

The idea that a character can perform physics-defying feats like shooting fire from their hands with enough practice is ridiculous.....

This is a fantasy game with magic, elves, and not to mention a race of sentient cats. Cats can jump 5 to 7 times their height btw and are also the fastest land animal and can reach speeds up to 70 mph.

As it is now my character (whether a cat or not) can't even jump over something I'd easily be able to step over in real life.



There's no magic involved in being not seen while crouching in the direct line of sight of an NPC in a well lit room either. Should they take out sneak next too?


I really don't understand why some people disliked acrobatics so much. The only way I was able to get that skill up high enough to get the height on jumps people are complaining about was by literally jumping everywhere. Just walking around town doing whatever I needed to do(buying/selling/getting a quest) while continually pushing space over and over.

What else would they be? :confused: Climbing and acrobatics are skills you become good at over time - not physical attributes.



I remember being able to jump high, but nowhere near as excessively high as you're suggesting. And i'm someone who always intentionally focused on that skill.



Again, I don't recall jumping being that excessive even at level 100. It only got silly if you went way beyond 100 somehow... like using console commands. Athletics was the same. If you went beyond 100, you kept getting faster and faster.

Frankly, if the player decided to up the skills that much, it's their own damn fault. Just leave the skills alone entirely if you don't want to end up with a super fast character who can jump ridiculously high.

Wow, okay, so because a game has magic, it should detach itself from all semblances of reality! Great idea.



The fastest land animal is structured nothing like a humanoid.




Great, so let them fix that. You don't need a new skill for that.




Possibly? Can they implement something better to replace it with? I'm open-minded about the idea, if you can show that it will work realistically without the use of a skill. However, the sneak skill is far more grounded in actual character skill than run speed or jump height, which should be attributed more to a statistical variance.

Unless you worked at it, you couldn't jump like that.

I still wonder how imersion is possible carrying hundreds of pounds of armor and swords around; a lot of you have experience swinging axes and swords weighing from 40 to 80 pounds?


the solution is the next game has two different peremeters set up at start, like Fallout NV did for the hard core . In one version you have acrobatics, chameleon, etc etc, and in the other, you must carry nothing over 150 pounds, cannot step over a rock which on this world we could easily, and must eat and sleep.

Here's a video of level 100 acrobatics in Morrowind. For a fantasy game, I really don't consider that excessive at all. :confused:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZHO-ABQ1sc

Climbing hasn't existed in the Elder Scrolls series since Daggerfall. If they want to bring it back, I'm all for it. Acrobatics, on the other hand, has very little to do with jump height, so much as air balance and landing capability.




If you were, then I don't see how you missed it. Maybe you always carried near your lifting capacity in gear, or something.





Oh great, and here's the "if you took the skill it's your own damn fault" argument. Another one I've never heard a million times before.




Wow, I could jump from roof to roof across that river in Balmora.

If you go around jumping all day. You would after some time jump higher. Should be in Skyrim.
If you always run, after some practice you will run faster. Should be in Skyrim.

Now, i don't understand how high 40 feet is, im european. Metric-system. But that sounds to high even with practice.
But you should be able to jump higher then everyone else if you often jump. The same with runnin faster.
It should be in the game as a skill, but more restricted to whats more logical + a tiny bit more. If humans IRL can jump over 2 meters high, a khajiit should be able to jump atleast 4.

In terms of jumping ability, I consider how far people can non-magically jump in "Avatar: the last Airbender" (With the exception of Ty Lee who occasionally jumps ridiculously high and far) to be a good standard for a superhuman but still believable maximum jump ability in a fantasy game.

No, you shouldn't. If Bethesda wants to implement an Acrobatics skill that allows you to perform certain jumping feats, then that would be fine. However, a humanoid can only jump so high based on joint structure, leg length, and physical strength and agility.

Yes you should. Fantasy humanoids should jump higher than irl humans. And if a guy who is 1.81 meters high can jump 2.40 meters high over a stick, why shouldn't a beasty cat be able to jump higher?