If I could get the meshes into Blender, I would have probably made a mod to cover up the cleavage and add undershirts to the forsworn armor by now. It's on my to-do list, but it's not a high priority. I'm not against nudity or six - I'm quite enthusiastic about both - but I hate feeling like I'm playing in a straight man's sandbox. The desire demon from Dragon Age: Origins infuriated me for this reason. Lust, personified by a lady in nipble tassels? That's a big middle finger to my existence as a straight woman if I ever saw one. I made a mod that took away the stripper gear and put her in a skin-tight satin shirt. A lot of people were angry about it. Accused me of being a prude, of being a hypocrite for supposedly enjoying violence but not six, and people posted to question why such a mod should ever exist - like, who would not wanna see naked chicks, right? It never occurred to them my problem was with the one-sidedness of the sixualization and not six itself, and if I didn't feel like making a new model for a male demon, putting clothes on the existing model was the next best thing.

Skryim's really not that bad. At least the forsworn armor's male version is just as ridiculous and skin-baring, and a few of the men's shirts have plunging necklines that I frankly enjoy. Mostly, the plunging cleavage and bikini armor looks kind of stupid and out of place. A few make me uncomfortable. I'm roleplaying a wild lady that will get naked at the drop of a pin and I still can't bring myself to put her in something like forsworn because it's just so...male gazey. I think I could make a version that's still sixy but less sixualized, if that makes sense.

I'm not the OP, but I wanted to post this to let people know that there are good reasons to be against sixualization that don't involve hating six.

You don't need to even go into Blender. You'd just need to replace the texture path in nifSkope from .../femalebody_1.dds to an edited version of femalebody_1.dds that has "cloth" instead of "skin". That's much more time consuming that merely replacing themeshes on the path of the skimpy clothing as I did, although, I didn't expect the variation in the names and folders from one armor/clothing mesh to the other. In Ob, for example, all cuirasses were named cuirass.nif, and where either in the f or m directories; in Skyrim, they have various names for the torsos, they are on different directories, etc.

On a related note, I must say I am surprised the mod has been on skyrim nexus for 2 hours, has no pics, a poor description, yet it has 11 unique downloads. I would love to allow for comments, but given that I myself originally made some un-called for comments on this very thread, I don't think it would be a good idea

Now you just need one with a burka too.

I am not very religious, but that seems like a really cheap shot, to bring up molesting children the second someone says they are a minister. oh! a minister! let's mention child molesting.


the way I read KP was that he has trouble taking the OP seriously, but wants to be be more fair-minded and not just post his prejudices but ask for clarification as to why someone would feel this way. i think there are reasons to want this mod that are reasonable and good, but also there are also reasons that would be based on anti-women, anti-six as good,etc.

If it bothered me more, I'd go that route, but it doesn't and I'm a perfectionist. I dig the fur and leather thing the rest of the armor does and would rather see an expansion of that than a skin tight undershirt.

Well, he did say he had prejudices and mentioned six offenders first.. but in any case, he made his statement, I made mine, he replied and said his peace. In my mind, we are good

But removing the scantaly clad women wouldn't change this game from M to T.

In fact if the game was just scantily clad women it would be T instead of M. It's the violence and murder that makes this an M rated game.

Hey, I'm a Biblethumping Zealot, and I like the tavern wenches how they look in Vanilla. Though I do wonder why they walk around in sub zero temperatures in a corset and underskirt.

I do like the way there was already a mod for it though. For the most specific of tastes, and we don't even have the CK yet.

First, we are good , right ?

As for making the game and E game, it would be tedious, but not hard per see. Basically, you could stop all the quests, make all the NPCs part of the same faction as the player (even animals), make all NPCs essential so no one dies, remove a few doors to some places, and you'd basically end with a game that has a character running around and looking at the pretty views, and fighting a dragon here and there.


Given that people are actually downloading the simple replacer I made, I may give this a try once the CS comes out

I don't care all that much that HONAW wants to change his game in such a way, but I will say this:


If you find "scantily clad" women in this game more morally objectionable then chopping peoples heads clean off with blood spraying everywhere, you are doing it incredibly wrong.

first we, are good. though, I will clarify I only brought of the idea of six/lust....did NOT bring up pedophilia first.

i guess how hard E would be would be related to coding that I don't know much about.

here is ratings guide. I think E 10 would be a better way to go than E depends on how you define "more"

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp

Was I the only one who thought the topics title meant that this guy wanted the dialog of people telling you to wear clothes or put something on when you run around naked to return. Don't know if it everyones or just mine game who does it but they never say anything when a naked pc walks in a city. Not that I regularly strip my character, I just sometimes forget to re-clothe him after returning from beast form.

yeah it's just your game. my favorite is the orc 'alright alright, we've seen it already, put some clothes on!' lol

Blimey!, I guess you've not met the forsworn females yet, I'm broadminded yet they took me by surprize, a pleasant surprize of course

So. Your ok with kids seeing heads flying off blood and what not. But, not cleavage?

I have no problem with cleavage. It does seem stupid to me that such outfits have Armor Class on them. Half your mammaries hanging out in the freezing Skyrim winter with not even a see-through sheet of chainmail over them, and somehow it's protected...

I see these same arguments a lot. They're annoying. When people object to nudity more than violence in fiction, it's not because they think six is "worse." It's because sixual content is usually meant to turn you on, which actively works against anyone trying to resist temptation. The violent content, however, doesn't follow you into real life. The more porm you see, the more likely you are to give in and say yes, but it isn't true that the more kill moves you see, the more likely you are to go behead someone. Therefore six in fiction is worse than violence in fiction as far as its effect on the real world. (Obviously that's all for people who believe that sometimes consensual six is still immoral, which is a different issue that I won't get into, except to say it's almost never about "hating six.") In short, the violence is fictional but the cleavage really is cleavage.

So everyone please stop accusing people of thinking real-world six is worse than real-world violence. Nobody thinks that.

As for kids, they'll learn that violence in cartoons/games is "just fiction." But if they're constantly exposed to images of men dressed to look tough and women dressed to advertise their availability for six, they'll likely internalize that into their worldviews. Also worth noting, you can avoid most non-kid-friendly stuff for a while to let your kid watch. Just disable kill moves, ignore all the mead, and go exploring anywhere other than human-filled dungeons. But there's cleavage everywhere.

Personally the six offends me more, because "six" actually means "women shoving their briasts in my face" and I am a straight woman. While decapitation just says "this is a game for people who like gorey games. We hope that's you," armor that changes into underwear when equipped on a woman says "this game is not for men. Go play The Sims." I am a woman trying to play a combat-centric game, but in Skyrim, women are there to be sixy and men are the ones who should look tough.

It is also just jarring to go from "why didn't jumping in that ice water do any frost damage?" to "your curaiss is a strapless bra." I mean, other immersion/realism mods get celebrated.

Thank you SystemShock, and Dall on the Nexus, for making mods to address this issue. I would love those less sixualized remodels even more, if they get made.

I have to wonder if the people who think cleavage is kid-unfriendly have ever heard of briastfeeding.

It's more about it being sixualized cleavage-flaunting, than about just seeing a briast.

I agree with KSG's points, although I think the word 'modesty' does not say 'I wish for female characters to be less inappropriately sixualised' as much as 'I am offended by inappropriate female clothing', which is obvious from how women are singled out in the OP. I believe that a mod which has that philosophy behind it will spend too much time removing the 'offensive' content and too little designing a respectable, lore-friendly alternative.

That said, I agree that 'but violence' isn't a valid rebuttal, and there is certainly room for improvement; for realism factors, but also because of the picture it gives to children. It's okay if some women are sixualised (I, for one, don't believe that sixual content is automatically poison for a child), but when even the armor is like this, it starts sending the message that sixiness for women is more important that functionality.

I remember being turned off from wearing chainmail armor when I was playing as a female Imperial in Oblivion. It made my character look like a joke.

I just desire a mod that will let me let my lady characters wear "manlier" clothing and my male characters wear dresses. While I like most of the clothing in game, it makes no sense for my female battle hardened warrior to remove her armor just to don a dress.(Not to say all female warriors should have to be 'masculine') Also for my insane male character it was a total buzz kill for him to murder some random noble women on the road, and put on one of their dresses to find that it magically transforms into pants. I miss Morrowind's clothing system in that respect. It was sooo much easier to role play certain characters.

More on topic, I would enjoy seeing this mod particularly for most armor in the game. While Elder Scrolls is one of the best that I know of when it comes to realistic women armor (which is really quite sad), it's still pretty awful how some of it is oddly sixualized. I myself have nothing against sixualized armor per say, but it is really just sixist at this point. There are a few armors for men that show off random skin (such as the male forsworn), yet even then it seems less sixualized and more just random skin showing. Which would be fine if it was the same for women. Hell, I could go on about why I cannot make my female characters bulky enough to actually look capable of wielding a two handed sword or even toned properly, but I feel that's a bit of a different modding topic.

Yes, OMG. I'd trade my dragon-soul-absorbing powers for the ability to wear some pants. My char is supposed to be a swashbucking type, and when I created her I imagined her wearing a sophisticated vest, blouse, and trousers ensemble. So sad to find only gowns so far.

Have you even seen Tsun? He doesn't even have the decency to wear a sport's bra, not to mention the Forsworn those Briarhearts show off way more skin than the ladies. Funny how the women-folk cry double standard when the only truly topless NPC in game are men

Aside from Nocturnal's robes and Foresworn armor, I didn't find any of the other female armors all that eye catching. Hell I didn't even notice they had 'sixy' tavern clothes until I started seeing mods for them. Seems to me like people that are complaining about the abundance of cleavage are actively looking for it and something to complain about more than anything else.

Yes, it's all a conspiracy to annoy male gamers. Or, ya know, it's a problem you have a hard time seeing because it doesn't affect you in any way.

I'm going to fire up Blender tonight and see if I can import some .nifs and work on these things:

De-boob plate armor
Less sixualized outfits
More masculine/feminine clothing options

It may be a while before I have the tools to implement them, but if I could start on the art, at least, that would be great.

I'd totally use that outfit if it wern't a shoop!