EDIT:Yep! Stenvar followed me around for 3 or 4 cells and eventualy he stopped and when i go back i find him but other NPCs disapeered. very funny you guys think this is a minor bug?! it's the most major one!

Are you running the beta patch?

Also I had a skyrim update today Will start the testing!

Apparently navmesh bug is fixed in the update today, so I hear

does the officially released 1.5.26 revert esp navmesh back to season 1? (old navmesh bug with NPCs stuck everywhere)

FML if it does


Edit: after a quick test on my navmesh-edited esp, so far everything looks good. will have to do some more testing using an all-esp-only navmeshed file

I just went into my mod after reverting to the old esp setup and half of the NPCs were milling about in the throne room. I have no clue how they got there.

Why must we guess/test whether Bethesda has fixed this or not for crying out loud? Can't they just give us a list of changes?

Well, I've been running 1.5.26 in beta for several days and I can tell you that my experience with it has been good. They fixed the issue of CTDs on travel and door access, which was a big relief. They returned the performance to pre-1.5 levels, also good. And the navmesh bugs seem to be less prevalent, but not completely fixed. Well, 2 out of 3 ain't so bad. I can say that I spent some extended time testing my own mods last night and I did not see any navmesh related events at all. Right after installing 1.5.26, I saw what I thought was clear evidence of it in one mod, but it did not happen again after I exited and restarted the game. But, to be fair, the release notes on the beta are pretty clear that they did not fix the old navmesh bug.
On the other hand, I now have the face texture mismatch in my custom NPCs again and I thought I had that one licked a few weeks ago. I have no idea if that is because of some change in 1.5.26 or something I did, but my old fix is not working, with or without custom face meshes and textures. Hopefully, I can work that out tonight as I would like to update my warehouse mod and release the companion bedroom, but it seems like I spent most of my time the past two days monkeying around with NPCs and their face and body textures.

I tested my mod with the new patch. Luckily the CTDs are gone and the actor are moving somewhat normally. However, if I reload my savegame after visiting modded cells, all of the actors disappear. So the bug is still there, not as severe as before though.

Someone wake me up when this Navmesh nightmare is over please.

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WAKEY, WAKEY!
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Sorry; couldn't resist.
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I have Skyrim update 1.5.26.0.5, courtesy of Steam, and when it arrived the first thing I noticed was an end to the usual behavior I have been accustomed to being able to provoke. I saw this thread and decided to run a test of my own.
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First I took a fast-trip to Whiterun Stables where Louis Letrush is currently buried up to his waist - obviously he got caught with his hands where they were not supposed to be but, lucky for him, no further than that or he would have been buried up to his neck. So, this cell is having the same difficulties as the last time I fast-traveled back from here....to the desktop. This time, however, my plotted destination to Questfall Tower sees me arrive safely within the gates with nary a desktop icon to be seen! Even the horse is in the right position, which is really strange considering the fact that I have not replaced the HorseMarker since the last time I removed it. So, onward soldiers of peace (or is that pieces?)!! And inside we go with my trusty companion, Mjoll the Lioness stalking along in my footsteps (and true to her lion-ness, ever on the lookout for any excuse to murder somebody, oops, I mean execute a suspected tax-evader - in a worthy cause; taxes for the DragonBorn, of course!). Sadly, no such luck but even she won't follow me into the basemant (which is to be expected because I wouldn't follow me into the basemant either - not to mention the teensy-eensy-weensy detail that the basemant has no NavMesh; that's no NavMesh at all. So far so good.
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So returning to the ground level cell, where she waits for me, we proceed to the upper level cell. There, we find the place overcrowded with mannequins and all standing ready to receive their burdens - all except one who has assumed a more lax pose - but all precisely where they belong and facing the correct direction - and Mjoll following faithfully in the footsteps of "Oh Great Leader". So, it's up to the roof and, what's that? She's still there. Obviously they've fixed a bug at some stage because this area was a no-go zone a couple of weeks ago, and I do not recall having altered the roof's NavMesh since. So, now it's on to the ventilation tower and the border control tower (in this neck of the woods? A good question!), up the not-so-"secret stair"; unless you're an NPC, in which case the missing NavMesh leaves you stranded back down on the roof of Questfall Tower - just like poor bewildered Mjoll. So far, so good.
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On my victorious return (Yes, Skyrim was "saved" by Didier de Fault - and we'll take a leaf out of Mussolini's diary and put that in all the primary school text-books just to make sure everyone gets the only permitted perspective on the matter). Is that a dragon I hear? Sounds like it's only a baby. Nonetheless, Skyrim needs it's Great Leader, Quick! Run! And so, inside we go - back to the upper level cell and safety - especially if the Mannequins have been dissuaded from plotting my assassination. At this point, it seems something is getting between Mjoll and I, and she appears suddenly in front of me.
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"Why Mjoll...",
"Huh" [stepping away].
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Ahem. Yes; rather obviously. Other than that, she is still following me around so, down we go to the ground level cell through which we originally entered and Mjoll is still following faithfully. And so it seems to me, that the current bug-fix survives the many ups and downs of my relationship with Mjoll. What can I say? NPC companions; the perfect partner for any would-be dictator.
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But irrespective of whether or not I am truly evil (and let me don my horns and take a shave with Mehrune's Razor for the desired effect), I've run this test, sometimes with minor variation (i.e. actually entering the ventilation tower in two of the tests), on at least three occasions since the update. The worst problem, by far, was one of the mannequins turning to face the wall. Obviously, that one's been naughty. But, perhaps, he is shunning his Great Leader - quick! Somebody call the secret police. There's a traitor pretending to be a mannequin.
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It is worth noting that Mjoll will pause before navigating the space and, in tight spots, she'll slow to negotiate the area at a walk before returning to a run. This seems to make sense to me given the tendency of items to get propped up on tables just waiting for a closely passing NPC to knock them over. I've also dropped an XMarkerHeading at the origin (0, 0, 0) for emergency recalls (e.g. when the avatar finds itself in a hole with no purchase and cannot fast-travel because lack of purchase sets the "falling" state). The Manequins use this as a way-point on their way to their assigned markers (even though it is not linked to them). The effect is actually briefly visible when the cell is loaded if the game is running slowly enough. The outcome is that they are less likely to make their way through props which, if moveable items in their base form, will burst forth and bounce around the cell until they come to rest.
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Whatever may be not working correctly, this seems to me to be a vast improvement - and I hope the bug-fix has been ported over to Fallout: New Vegas where I hear the NavMesh was doing similarly strange things.

So I gathered from that story that the bug is indeed fixed.

I'm not sure? Still waiting for a definitive "yes the navmesh bug is fixed".

All I'm interested in is whether we still have to maintain esm file, or has the time finally come permitting us to re-integrate our existing esm/esp pairs into single esp file? It's quite simple. Either Navmesh bug has or has not been fixed. Partial fixes don't count.

I'ts not that I'm too lazy to verify myself (well, perhaps I am). I't just that I don't relish the prospect of converting my house mod back to single esp only to find out the problem persists.

As everyone knows, such a procedure (TESVSnip) is fraught with possibility of introducing unintended bugs etc., and with quite a few people running my mod, I want to hear verification before I subject them (users of mod) to an update.

Thanks

Hmmm...just ran a little test after updating, and I'm still suffering from Cow on the Rooftop syndrome:

[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/46946106/TESV%202012-03-31%2010-31-49-59.jpg[/img]

My farmer is also suffering from "Stuck in the Porch" disease.

Will this update correct problems with mods made under the old version...or just mods created after the update?

It is not completely fixed. The bug still occurs if you reload a savegame and re-enter a modified cell (ie. the navmesh disappears). Only restarting the game normalizes the situation again. Despite the fact that the bug is much tolerable now, it'd best completely rooted out.

So in other words still broken no effective change.

No, the navmesh bug is not fixed. My opinion from my testing is that they did indeed roll it back to what we had before 1.5 and the differences we might see in NPC behavior are probably just coincidental or wishful thinking. At least, I think my earlier observations were wishful thinking. I now also believe I can connect the navmesh bug to another problem I am having with door teleports as well. When I go through the same steps that trigger the navmesh bug, in addition to triggering the navmesh bug, I have also discovered that my exterior doors will not work correctly. It's been happening for a while, but I never connected the two problems before. Now that I realize they are connected, it is painfully obvious. When running as an ESP, the doors say they go somewhere they are clearly not connected to and then ctd on use. When running as an ESP the doors might seem to work, but the exterior cell (and all surrounding cells as well) will be missing the landscape and many objects, especially those that are not marked as Is Full LOD. It affects vanilla objects as well. I have seen a number of people reporting this problem, but I have never been able to tie it all together. Our latest adventures with 1.5 have led me to believe this is all connected.

Oh god, I'm gonna give up all hope on this. My low blood pressure doesn't wont to be shot to high levels over this.

I agree. There's clearly a similarity between the CTDs caused by teleporting actors and the player teleporting from a modded cell into a worldspace. I'm guessing it might have something to do with memory handling but that's just a wild guess since I know nothing about programming a game.

Correct. It's all been rolled back to 1.4.27 behavior. The CK portion of the fix stayed because that hasn't been rolled back, but the in-game side of it was backed out. So back to NPCs standing on tables, gathering on balconies, going into hiding, or just plain not leaving their houses.

No idea if them leaving the CK-side fix in is having any real effect.

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One of the great difficulties of troubleshooting is the very human tendency to want to connect things. I think it gives us hope that the fix is easy and the final solution is just around the next corner. However, it is more common for several "related" faults to have several entirely separate causes but to only appear related because, when they occur together, they often interact; giving rise to coincidence rather than causality.
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In light of my own testing, which I performed from old savegames, I suspect it possible that Steam may not have delivered on time for all of us. They did seem somewhat tardy in my particular case - but there may have been other reasons for that (like a certain overuse of the Creation Kit by yours truly at the time). It is, I think somewhat more likely that what you are describing is a different problem. Moreover, the problem you describe sounds suspiciously familiar to me. I've seen it before in Whiterun back before any of us were running any mods with this game. That's the reason I originally assumed the NavMesh Bug was a hardware or operating system fault - and because those random mesh disappearances are fixed by reloading the game - which purges and, more importantly, reallocates the memory. Which reminds me of http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1363038-warning-windows-media-player-caught-stealing-machine-resources-allocated-to-skyrim/, which deserves a thread of its own.
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So may I suggest that we all mind our footing as we may be getting tag-teamed by multiple bugs - and there is no guarantee that all of them originate in Skyrim or the Creation Kit.

Thanks Arthmoor for verification.

Yes, I suspect that is part of the difficulty in sorting out what's really going on.

Once again, I wonder why Bethesday doesn't clarify the situation. Certainly they are well aware of the frustrations this is causing among the modding community.

They are aware, but my guess is that they can't clarify it anymore than they already have. I'm sure if they knew the cause they'd have issued a beta over Steam to be tested for it.

That may be.

Still, I wonder why they don't at least make Steam Workshop esm-friendly in the interim. It's seem "wrong" that we can upload Navmesh-related mods on Nexus (with esm), but not on Steam.

The important part of ESM'ification is the internal flag which already can survive Workshop'ification and not the file extension which cannot. Still, it would be nice to have our extensions unaltered...

Because they appear to be correctly taking the approach that false-flag esmifying something is not the solution to the problem. It would make load order 100% worthless and would eventually lead to a lot of complaints to them about mods that don't work properly. Leading to wasting a lot of developer time on unsupported hacks the community introduced themselves.