This thread shall contain usage of the L word that He-Who-Remains so dislikes...

Anyway, I figured we could share the things we've picked up so far and our thoughts on them.

Things I've picked up on so far:
*The Capital of Morrowind was moved to Blacklight (which was the capital of the Redoran District), following the sacking of Mournhold.
*House Hlaalu is no longer a Great House and wields no power in Morrowind, but still exists as an entity.
*House Redoran is the pre-eminent house in Morrowind now.
*Apparently House Sadras took Hlaalu's place.
*Morrowind is no longer an Imperial Province.
*Morrowind's relations are in tatters now that House Hlaalu have been ousted. The Dunmer hate the Empire for withdrawing the legions and leaving them defenseless during the Oblivion Crisis (Important for those who need a reason for the Dunmer to join Stormcloaks).

Haven't been to the Telvanni settlement yet, so there's probably a lot more to be found talking to Master Neloth. Finding it all rather interesting thought and it has answered some of the questions I've had rattling around in the ol' thinking box for a while now.

Vivec got rebuilt but not in its full glory (dunno if thats a new info)

Wow then they had no idea they were going to do this because the Hlaalu in Riften leads us to believe that House Hlaalu is still very much alive. From what she says something along the lines of my father hates me because I didn't follow in the footsteps of great Hlaalus, or something of that nature. If they no longer hold any power that doesn't make any sense unless they just up and left Morrowind altogether.

Wow! That's ... Wow!
I'm shocked that Hlaalu is no longer a Great House. Even more shocked that Morrowind is no longer a part of the Empire. Thanks for posting this.

Now I want to see Blacklight even more...

So the Southern part of the Island is pretty ash filled and barren looking...... Can you Imagine what Morrowind must look like?

Telvanni have settlements in northern Vvardenfell.

It's also very awkward given that Oblivion rumors would suggest that Hlaalu was the most powerful and Redoran was barely staying alive....
Yet another "btw we were kidding" line from Oblivion I guess, alongside Redguards hating magic.

You shouldn't trust Oblivion on lore. Redguards hating magic was one of the more [censored] things imo, because in Daggerfall you could get to Hammerfell and nobody hated magic IIRC and in Morrowind there were plenty of Redguard wizards.
Also, Red Mountain erupting and Vvardenfell basically destroyed kinda changes the Great Houses a little. So the Hlaalu part can't be criticised because of Oblivion lore.

The redguard one is weird.

But the Morrowind one makes sense if you consider that during the events of Oblivion Red Year and the Argonian invasion hadn't happened yet. Red Year ended everything on Vvardenfel, the Argonians sacked Mournhold (then held by a Hlaalu and was an Indoril city) and the Hlaalu lands, wiped out Dres... Indoril was already gone... makes sense that the only ones doing well would be the people on the two opposite sides - the Redoran and the Telvanni.

Redoran was hurt by the Oblivion invasion but was much better off after Red Year than the other houses - after all, they had already lost Ald-Ruhn so Vvardenfel's demise wouldn't have been very significant to them anymore. They were also closest to Solstheim so they probably moved there as quickly as possible and established dominance.

Ive seen people ask questions about the Tribunal, so I thought Id repost this here.
Enjoy

"The destruction of Vivec city and the subsequent eruption of Red Mountain in 4E5 was not just a crisis in terms of the physical destruction it caused - it also cut deeply into the ancient religious beliefs of the Dunmer. The fall of the Ministry of Truth was the last straw in the tottering support for the Temple's worship of Almalexia, Sotha Sil and Vivec. With all three of the Tribunes now widely believed dead or dissapeared, what had been a simmering schism within the ranks of the Temple priesthood burst into the open.

While outsiders may never know the full tale of this internal struggle, when the smoke cleared a few years later, the former Dissident Priests were in full control of the Temple heirarchy(sic), with Tribunal priests either purged or recanted. The so-called "New Temple" now declared the worship of the Tribunes a result of misguided teaching, blaming the mistakes on the former Tribunal. The Temple now taught that the daedra venerated by the Ashlander tribes (Azura, Mephala and Boethia) were the "true way" and should be revered by the Dunmer people. Fittingly, the daedra were named "reclamations" as if they were reclaiming their status from the Tribunal.

In an elegant compromise, no doubt intended to reconcile the large majority of Temple priesthood who were neither Dissidents or fanatic Tribunal loyalists, Almalexia, Sotha SIl and Vivec were relegated to the status of "saints", a traditional way to venerate the most honored ancestors. This apparently statisfied enough of the existing priesthood that the New Temple was able to maintain at least a semblance of outward continuity.

The rise of the New Temple almost completely vindicated the previously persecuted Ashlanders, who had continued to worship the three daedra throughout the Tribunal's rule. The Ashlanders now lauded as the keepers of the old ways and having "true vision."
It is now quite common for many of the Dunmer people to make arduous pilgrimages into the ash wastes to seek the council of the Wise Women. The women have supposedly opened the eyes of those who they claim were "blinded by the Tribunal," and directly connect the eruption of the Red Mountain and the Argonian invasion to the anger of the three daedra.

House Indoril, whose fortunes were so intwined with the Tribunal Temple, suffered greatly from its fall. While house Indoril still technically exists, the priesthood of the Temple are now considered one and the same with house Indoril- those who become priests are now considered to have "joined Indoril". The political power of the Indoril has thus passed entirely into the hands of the Temple.
(Although members of the old house Indoril are still over-represented in the priesthood.)

The rise of the new Temple has a number of interesting parallels with the rise of house Redoran - each filled the vacuum of power resulting from the crisis of the Red Year. How durable these new arrangements will prove, religious and political, remains to be seen.
The span of two centuries is quite brief in the long history of the ancient Dunmer people."

The Reclamations: The Fall of the Tribunal and the Rise of the New Temple
by Thara of Rihad
(full text)

I wish there is a quest which somehow ties in with Brand-Shei of Riften. Reading his father's last words made me feel very very sad, and if I could somehow connect him further with his Telvanni legacy I'd be a much happier man.

Ironic how the Dunmer hate the Empire for withdrawing when that's exactly what the Stormcloaks want. Was the Red Mountain eruption tied into the Oblivion crisis, or a separate disaster on its own? I was under the impression that it was the eruption which destroyed Morrowind, and not so much the Oblivion crisis which, if the Hero of Kvatch did his job, shouldn't have lasted that long.

ya they missed an opertunity with the dunmer in riften.

The Oblivion crisis was the final piece needed to allow for Red Year (not counting all the messing around trying to stop it in the books). Vivec's power disappeared with him (probably killed) and so as people's faith in him waned, his magic keeping the Ministry of Truth (a large asteroid) suspended in time failed, and it resumed it's original velocity. The impact not only obliterated Vivec (the city), but triggered the eruption of the red mountain too.

The reason Vivec died/lost his power was due to the actions of the Nerevarine in Morrowind.

The crisis also didn't exactly help anyone, and in fact severely hurt House Redoran, however Red Year and the Argonian invasion hurt the other houses more, so Redoran took power again. Also I think in canon the Oblivion main quest took a long time for the Hero to complete.

I just do not have the words to fully express how happy I am that my beloved homeland has finally shrugged off the shackles of an oppressive, weak-willed Empire!!!!

Sure, the Dunmer people would be pissed that the Empire abandoned them during the Oblivion crisis, and then during the Red Year and the cowardly lizard invasion when the Empire left us to fend for ourselves...

But reading the lore, my people are successfully rebuilding, and are free of Imperial influence. With the loss Morrowind (which Dunmer are not sorry about now), if Skyrim breaks away then the Empire will consist of High Rock and Cyrodiil. That's not much of an Empire. It's laughable.

Some points in reference to previous posts:


Don't be too shocked. Of all of the great Houses, Hlaalu was the one who had the most influence with, and was in bed deepest with the Empire. They're the House that really allowed the Empire to come into Morrowind in the first place (brokering the deal that ended the War). During and just after the Oblivion Crisis, anti-Empire sentiments were at a strong simmer, and when the Empire removed it's last troops and the Argonians attacked, the Empire did nothing. So now Morrowind has it's independence, and a strong dislike of the Empire (bordering on hatred). It's no wonder that House Hlaalu took the brunt of the fallout. They were the ones pushing Imperial desires on the Dunmer people, so since they couldn't take their anger out on the Empire, the Empire's lackeys take the fall.

Hlaalu still exists as a House, but it's not considered one of the Great Houses anymore, and thus has no voice in the ruler-ship of an independent and Sovereign Morrowind. So the Hlaalu in Riften wasn't wrong, Hlaalu is still a House, but it's lost all of it's authority.

House Sadras was a House just on the verge of being a Great House, but could not quite get there. With Indoril facing setbacks (they're still a Great House, the Second Councilor even says so in his dialogue), and House Hlaalu being about as disgraced as a House can get; House Sadras allied with Redoran and Telvaani in the rebuilding of Morrowind.

Not really. The Dunmer suffered centuries of occupation, taxation, unwanted missionaries and immigrants, and for what? When they finally did need the Empire, it wasn't there.

Hlaalu was still the most powerful. Redoran was the only House to really get their [censored] together and form a standing army though (makes sense, they are the more warrior-aligned House) and they teemed up with the other houses to make it happen.

Redguards hating magic is definitely one of those facepalm moments though.



Thanks Merari. I haven't really gotten an opportunity to read the new books just sit when I have been sitting in front of the T.V. Its nice to see that the three 'good' Daedra are right back where they belong in Dunmeri religion.


The whole Brand-shei thing could have been handled better anyway, IMO. Presumably his father was a Telvanni councillor, to which Brand-shei was the sole heir too, not the House itself.

As for Morrowind, they had no standing army. So when the legions (most, if not all) pulled out, they had no ready defense against the Daedric invasion. House Redoran even used magic to resurrect Ald'Skar (The Emperor Crab) to try and fight back that's how desperate things were looking.

So much stormcloak bias it disgusts me...Oh well, ill just kill them all with my new hammer

You mean the general idea or the fact that they used magic in Skyrim while Oblivion said they were supposed to hate it?

I much prefer the terms "backstory", "fluff", and "history" in conjunction to the proper categories per the information given.
Calling it just Information or Info is also preferred to the use of Lore, which I still state people misuse to an aggravating level.

The general idea that Redguards hate magic. The only time it is ever mentioned was in Oblivion.

It's not Stormcloak bias so much as it's Pro-Dunmer.

Most Dunmer really couldn't give two [censored] if Ulfric wins or the lolEmpire wins.

What matters is that the Dunmer are now independent and have shaken off the oppression of the Empire. We're rebuilding, and almost back to our old strength. Blacklight and the Great houses are even sending small bands of warriors and battle-mages into the countryside to retake their land from the few remaining lizards. Then they're resettling that same newly recaptured land.

So... Stormcloak? No. Dunmer? Yes.

Do we have anything on the Dunmeri royal family? I'm curious to see how the upper part of Dumner society has changed now that Hlaalu has fallen, afterall we had Hlaalu Helseth heading Morrowind under the Empire in Morrowind.

Blacklight being the new capital indicates a shift towards Redoran. Then again, Telvannis would not accept this status (too much distraction, too many people entering the city) and Tear was presumably destroyed by the Argonians.

Also, 'Sadras'... wat?

I thought hlaalu still existed but had no presence on solsliem but they still had a presence on the mainland

Looks like Dagoth Ur got his wish. No more Empire in Morrowind and the Tribunal is gone.