do NOT use the so called "d3d9.dll fix" : Fallout: New Vegas

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:54 pm

sooooooo, whats the point of the ones in the my games folder?

the launcher uses the default to "update" those and the game uses them when it starts.
If you use one of the two "no launcher" ways (over at NV Nexus) to start the game then the updates to the default would have no effect until you launch from steam.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:11 pm

It's steam pissing around and trying to add a redundancy layer, and not figuring out where and what should or shouldn't be edited.

why is that a problem with steam? no other game i have on steam creates redundant files?

the my games folder have always been used by bethesda games, so why is it now steams fault because the devs didnt remove that spot for where the files go? Steam isnt the ones that determine where every single gamefile must go, thats for the devs to organize.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:13 pm

Wow what a complete load of rubbish, obviously the guy who typed that has no clue what he's talking about.

Been using that dll fix with my HD5850 since the game came out now and i've never had any issues with it, it hasn't degraded the image quality either...

EDIT:

Koroush is well respected, he's not Jesus. Just because he said it doesn't make it the gospel truth. Personally I'd much rather trust that I've tried it, it works, and ironically it causes less visual degradation than the fix he suggests as an alternative. If he said, "Don't just use it because you can, it's a fix to a specific problem with a specific card, if you don't have that problem or that card then don't bother" then I'd be on board, but saying that the DLL won't help anyone is just false.

He comes across as an ignorant control freak to me, go and read why he closed his forum for one. http://forums.tweakguides.com/showthread.php?p=93314#post93314

He's rude and rather selfish judging from that post.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:18 pm

the dll fix is a solution. if you are gonna attack the dll file you better have an even greater solution. toggle emotions doesnt do squat.

» Sun May 29, 2011 2:17 am

I ran the dll through a disassembler. So that nvidia dll file that's called out in rendererinfo.txt is irrelevant, the game doesn't use or call it in any way. It's just part of the 7900gs spoof info.

But there are a to of SET and CREATE commands related to vertex and pixel shaders. It's way over my head, but I still would like to know what it is doing

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:44 pm

Nvidia 250 GTS 1 GB
XP SP3

I Got one thing to say the author of this post - Hogwash !

The are no perminate negative effects from using the .dll and many (including myself) can not play the game without it.

A grand fix, well dicovered, that kept me from throwing Fallout New Vegas in the trash.

A more than perfect solution until the issue gets officially addressed ( If Ever ).

I am at level 27 with the .dll and all is well

System and video card working well - no issues

.dll checks good on ZoneAlarm, Malwarebytes Anti-Malware, and windows defender.

DO USE THE .DLL IF IT HELPS. ( NVIDIA OR ATI VERSION )

What that you say? " do NOT use the so called "d3d9.dll fix" ", Maybe you should apply at obsidian for a Quality Assurance position. I am sure that would help us all...

I Always like the info on TweakGuides - To bad this individual had to to go off the cuff, and say something ignorantly dominating.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:39 pm

I really don't understand why a few people have been poo-pooing the .dll fix? It works great and there is NO image quality loss.

How the hell can you make a game that already looks five years old, appear any worse?

(Use the fix: Play the game: Be happy!)

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:14 pm

also, no sense in using the fix if your card is worse than what it's trying to spoof

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:19 pm

I really don't understand why a few people have been poo-pooing the .dll fix? It works great and there is NO image quality loss.

How the hell can you make a game that already looks five years old, appear any worse?

(Use the fix: Play the game: Be happy!)

well if the fix doesnt do a damn thing for me, why would i keep using it? Not every single [censored] person using the dam thing has all their problems solved because of it.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:57 pm

why is that a problem with steam? no other game i have on steam creates redundant files?

the my games folder have always been used by bethesda games, so why is it now steams fault because the devs didnt remove that spot for where the files go? Steam isnt the ones that determine where every single gamefile must go, thats for the devs to organize.

Normally, the game works by detecting your settings and picking the appropriate ini copy from your fallout folder (Low, mid and high) and copies it into the Games/FalloutNV folder. From there, that new copy is edited when you change your settings, and that is where they are all saved.

However, the problem is that Steam overwrites this ini, thus removing all your changes, when you launch the game from the launcher.

The rest should be self explanitory.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:36 pm

I thought it was the Fallout NV launcher doing that not Steam?
Cant see why Steam would touch anything.

» Sun May 29, 2011 1:54 am

The FaceGen implementation in this game is utter crap. High end graphics cards like the GTX 480 and Radeon 5970 both have massive drops in frame rates when in the presence of multiple human NPCs, even on the lowest settings.

The .dll is justified.

If you experience this problem, do not be discouraged. Until Bethesda decides to take action there will be no true fix.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:36 pm

The FaceGen implementation in this game is utter crap. High end graphics cards like the GTX 480 and Radeon 5970 both have massive drops in frame rates when in the presence of multiple human NPCs, even on the lowest settings.

The .dll is justified.

If you experience this problem, do not be discouraged. Until Bethesda decides to take action there will be no true fix.

Yes, this .dll fix works for me. I tried it on my 8800GT desktop and it did wonders; from 30FPS to ~70FPS around NPCs. I have a problem with it though running on my GT 325M laptop. Anyone knows how to edit the dll to fit my video card?

It seems I am having a problem with the game's FaceGen. Enabling FaceGen heads somehow decreases the game's performance by ~30%. Disabling it (through settings inf) gives me no option to shoot NPC heads but it gives a great increase in framerates. This happens even if I am only looking at one NPC. Surely, a single NPC head couldn't normally degrade the frame rates by ~30% right? Also, all of the people I've talked to so far have this problem, meaning probably 'all' people who purchased this game isn't noticing this until you tell them to test frame rates. All my drivers are up to date, installed the latest dx runtimes.

The d3d9 dll file floating around did increase the performance of new vegas on my 8800GT desktop but that file won't work on my GT 325 M laptop. Notes say that it fixes the FaceGen issue. This made me conclude that FONVs FaceGen rendering is somehow inefficient. I was hoping you guys could make a similar official patch that would address the issues regarding your FaceGen rendering.

BTW, my specs on the laptop: Intel i5-450M, nVidia GT325M 1GB, 4GB RAM, Win7 x64

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:11 pm

I'm one of the sheep, yo. Sad part is I didn't use the fix for a week because of a few alarmist posters. I'm here to thank the people that found this fix for a couple of reasons. I do a new build e edu three years or so, when I do I try and get the very best component I can on that day because I know I have bills and I need it to last. I play RPGs, that's what I like. I loaded up this svcker and thought, [censored], my gtx 280 is aging way faster than I thought it would. I don't know [censored] about software or code or anything. Putting together a pc is like building a model to 'me. I read guides and really enjoy doing it for an evening. Ok a little drunk and rambling here, point is if you're gonna scream don't use this fix give 'me a reason you know to be true not just "uh this might cause problems later". WTF is that. The fix rocks for 'me, I hope my puter don't blow up.

» Sun May 29, 2011 1:47 am

To each his own. People shouldn't be coerced into using it if it isn't necessary for their system. Me personally the DLL file makes things much much worse, not in terms of frame rates but in image quality and lighting effects. Now if some how I can figure out why I have very faint light flicker constantly during loading scenes and around many light sources in game it would be perfect.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:07 pm

Is there some coercing going on?

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:04 pm

the fix doesn't do crap for my geforce 9100M card and makes things worse causing flickering. actually the game runs fairly well on the lowest settings otherwise, haven't had a crash yet in 50 hours of play

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:07 pm

ToggleEmotions did not do anything for me, the dll was a miracle for me

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:01 pm

After running it through the PE Explorer Disassembler, there appears to be a lot more going on then just the name of the video card. The dll define several directx parameters that are normally defined by the driver (dll is overriding them). There are several strings for pixel shaders and vertex shaders along with texture (something about mip map sublevels and blitting). Interestingly, it also forces vertex processing in software (CPU). Anybody out there more versed in this sort of thing care to take a look? It's a little over my head but it does appear modify direct3d settings

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:06 pm

What that you say? " do NOT use the so called "d3d9.dll fix" ", Maybe you should apply at obsidian for a Quality Assurance position. I am sure that would help us all...

*sigh* why do people insist on believing that Obsidian programmed the game? Obsidian developed the game, but Bethesda did not just hand them the engine and say 'go at it!'... that's not how it works. Think of it like a movie.. A movie director isn't the guy behind the camera, that's the cinematographer. Read the programmer names in the credits, mostly Bethesda folks. As are the QA team. Also, read this: http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/1376671075

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:00 pm

*sigh* why do people insist on believing that Obsidian programmed the game? Obsidian developed the game, but Bethesda did not just hand them the engine and say 'go at it!'... that's not how it works. Think of it like a movie.. A movie director isn't the guy behind the camera, that's the cinematographer. Read the programmer names in the credits, mostly Bethesda folks. As are the QA team. Also, read this: http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/1376671075

It doesn't matter now who to blame these bugs to, but in any case they should make sure a quick but effective patch. Especially the FaceGen rendering crap. This just ruined the game for me as I expected to play this on my laptop at High settings with only minor framerate drops, but now even at Low settings at the lowest resolutions it goes to ~25 FPS when near even a single NPCs face.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:06 pm

the fix doesn't do crap for my geforce 9100M card and makes things worse causing flickering. actually the game runs fairly well on the lowest settings otherwise, haven't had a crash yet in 50 hours of play

Your 9100 is supposed to run slowly because it isn't intended for games. It's merely a little chip intended for business and low-intensity use. The game minimum requirements call for an actual, discrete circuit board that is added on in the computer, not a mere little embedded bit of silicon inside the mainboard's chipset.

Obsidian managed to screw up the official requirements, and now Bethesda will be stiffnecked and never correct them.

The requirements for the Fallout 3 game made sense, and there's very little difference in the demands from the two games.

Here's a corrected Requirement based on those:

What are the Fallout New Vegas system requirements?

Minimum System Requirements (VGAs corrected for Obsidian stupidity):

* Windows XP/Vista/Win7
* 1GB System RAM (XP)/ 2GB System RAM (Vista)
* 2.0 Ghz Dual Core processor
* Direct X 9.0c compliant video card with 256MB RAM
(NVIDIA 6800 "GS" or better/ ATI X1300XT or better)
{Added my note here, the X1600 Pro & up really, and
avoid both the Geforce 6800 SE, and the 6800 XT}
* 10 GBs of free hard drive space

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:02 pm

As long as I had the comment space sitting here (accidental dupe, initially), does anyone recall whether Ghazi's site has either a forum, or the equivalent of Commenting to a Blog entry? If so, then that should be where many of the comments from this thread actually belonged!

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:41 am

I've been receiving a lot of emails about this, so I thought it important to finally speak out about it. An unofficial 'fix' to performance issues in Fallout: New Vegas has been doing the rounds for the past week as some sort of global solution to all problems. I do not recommend this D3D9 Fix at all, as it causes Fallout: New Vegas to falsely redetect your graphics card as a lower model, and in turn use a lower shader package. It can reduce image quality and cause a range of long-term problems. A much better solution is to use the ToggleEmotions (temo) console command in each Fallout: New Vegas session to temporarily disable facial emotions on NPCs, thereby removing the major source of the slowdowns which may occur in areas where there are several characters. This method will not reduce your image quality or cause other potential problems. This is also a good time to remind everyone that PC gaming does not involve any quick fixes. If you're having performance issues in Fallout: New Vegas or any other game, the correct solution inevitably involves properly optimizing and maintaining your entire PC, along with research and intelligent tweaking of the game, not just grasping at the first quick fix that happens to come along. Additionally, official patches and driver updates resolve many of the legitimate problems, so some patience is also involved.

That is a pretty ridiculous statement IMO. I know a lot of us tried "intelligent tweaking" for almost 12 hours straight on release day to get NV running well enough to be playable due to the NPC glitch. ToggleEmotions didn't do jack in my case, as the million of other things I tried. He mentions "potential problems or long-term problems" caused by using the dll fix without any other details whatsoever, if you're gonna make statements like that, back it up.

If I have to sacrifice a bit of image quality to be able to enjoy the game so be it. Just because it's a simple and quick fix, and doesn't meet some kind of "hardcoe PC gamer" standard this guy has in his mind, doesn't mean it shouldn't be used if nothing else works for you. I've been using the dll fix for over 60 hours, sure there's a few little visual glitches, but it's infinitely more playable than it is without it.

» Sun May 29, 2011 2:39 am

Normally, the game works by detecting your settings and picking the appropriate ini copy from your fallout folder (Low, mid and high) and copies it into the Games/FalloutNV folder. From there, that new copy is edited when you change your settings, and that is where they are all saved.

However, the problem is that Steam overwrites this ini, thus removing all your changes, when you launch the game from the launcher.

The rest should be self explanitory.

By the way just to clarify. Steam is not over writing the ini file.. that's the launcher provided by the game. If it was steam doing this then even the batchfile method of starting the game would not work.

set SteamAppID=22380
FalloutNV.exe

Please don't confuse this with steam.

Steam is a content delivery and some drm as well as some online matchmaking etc. It's not set to "automagicly" mess with your install files unless it's updating or validating the files.. (yes some times it will override your settings to not auto patch installs but sofar I've only seen this with one or two games and the software companys requested steam to do that. borderlol(ands) was one of these games if I remember correctly.)

I have a test for you to prove this.. back up your fallout_default.ini file.. then delete it. then run the launcher again.. it will _not_ recreate this file.. if steam was messing with it then the file would be magicly back again..
Unfortunately it's not repairing this file via the file validation in steam.. it's somthing I will be shortly adding to the bug list if it's not there.