I'll be happy as long as daggers do at least 2/3 the base damage of swords, dont care about the post-armsman perks.

My guess is that some of the perks work. It would not surprise me either way if the decapitation perk works or doesn't work for them. By making them stealth weapons it gives them a niche of usefulness. A number of the advantages of smaller weapons like daggers aren't particularly easy to render into a video game.

If you want to drain 400 soul gems every time you fight a mudcrab, knock yourself out. Some of us are going to prefer a weapon that doesn't use 20 swings to kill something.

And not everyone is a min/maxing munchkin. Try making a character that's fun instead of trying to build http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2010/11/4/football-helmet-clown-shoes-guy.html. Honest. You don't have to min/max to enjoy the game. I'm sure as hell not going to.

They all do, except the ones that specifically say for axe, mace, or sword. The dual wield tree with daggers is going to be RIDICULOUS. Can't wait.

Daggers are thrown in with the blades I believe. So all perks associated with blades in one handed count fro the dagger. That's what I believe.

That's good. I don't plan to, either. Not sure how that really even came up.

As far as enchantments go... again, this is all based on the idea that it'll be like it was in Oblivion (which I believe they said it was.) I don't really remember having any trouble finding tons and tons of soul gems. And I don't think you'll need to invest in enchantment just to keep items charged. Not to mention, people keep talking about how there won't be enough things to spend money on and you'll end up ridiculously rich, just like in all of the other games. So, you could also just pay to have it recharged every time you went to town. But again, I really don't care what they do. I'll just be happy if someone else doesn't post another seemingly angry post quoting me because they don't agree with me.

If some of the base ONE-HAND perks effect daggers I plan on making a DW Dagger + Enchanter character.

DW speed perk + Attack Speed Shout + 2 Enchanted Daggers + Maxed Enchantment Perks = WTF.

if any of you wana see some numbers tossed around if daggers dont get a base damage buff, look at this:

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1247826-why-would-you-dual-wield-daggers/

i gave some rough calculations based on a sword that was confirmed and a range of hypothetical dagger damages. In most cases if the dagger wasnt within 90% of the damage of a sword, a swords sneak attack hit harder, despite the x15 modifier.

BASELINE
iron dagger: 4 damage weight 2
iron sword: 8 damage weight 9

50 percent. Of course it might not stay scaled at exactly 50 percent, but that is the start, and much lower than an oblivion value you were hypothesizing with. (which is 3/4-4/5)

Daggers are for stealth.

Which I am not happy with at all. My build is ruined because of that. I'd do more damage if I just go with Heavy Armor and punch things to death... Perhaps that's what I'll do, although that probably won't work with an Argonian. I'm really not happy right now. I had this dual-dagger build planned out for weeks and the game throws it all aside. Daggers should still be a viable weapon.

Huntsman, you could just go illusion heavy on your build and utilize repeated invisibility against multiple enemies. That would afford you several sneak attacks instead of just one. My spellsword will do the same. Daggers could suffice for this.

Why don't you just play how you want to play and enjoy the game? Even if the particular build you choose isn't the absolute best in terms of damage does that mean it is no longer viable? I think not. It's ridiculous to begrudgingly play a build you don't enjoy just because it has a higher damage output, and equally ridiculous to refuse to play a build you enjoy because it is not the best available.

Bethesda NEEDS to make sure that one-handed includes daggers to some degree. I'd expect Duel Flurry, Armsman, Critical Charge, Duel Savagery and Paralyzing Strike to include daggers. Hell, I'd settle just for Duel Flurry and Armsman.

If not, I'll still use daggers but just spam the trigger. Daggers hit about twice as fast as other one handed weps, therefore do about the same DPS. This was the case in Oblivion anyway. Also, power attacks with certain weapons have different effects. Perhaps daggers do something when duel-wielding them? A super-quick slashing/stabbing motion?

Because everybody keeps telling me that daggers aren't viable in open conflict, especially against opponents with shields, or dragons. I'm not going to use magic and I'm not going to switch weapons, so if two daggers aren't capable of holding their own, then I'm just going to get killed over and over. However, if daggers do get a boost from armsman, and all of the power attack perks as well, then I should be fine - especially if I have a companion tanking for me. I just wish we knew conclusively whether or not those perks work with daggers, which is why this thread was made, but we still don't know for sure.

This. I want daggers to be useful in situations besides steal kills, even if they aren't as damaging as swords, but if they aren't effected by perks like armsman they will be literally useless. lets say the dagger does 5 damage and a sword does 10. With full armsman perk that sword can eventually do 20 damage, if daggers are not effected, it will always stay at 5 damage, effectively gimping an entire weapon set.

I agree. But then you always get some mong-tard saying that you need to enchant your dagger and it will do more damage due to the excessive application of the enchanment via quick slashing. Enchantments aren't infinite and are expensive to recharge. Plus, asassins don't want to take enchanting because it wastes perk points on usefull stealth skills.

Geez, enchants run out on swords quick enough, I don't even wanna imagine how quick it would run out on daggers

Do like I plan to do, if it's possible. Use a really hard hitting 1 handed non-dagger and a dagger in the offhand. Use the offhand for sneak attacks and then the 1h weapon + the dagger OH should suffice for damage output in normal fights. Especially if that dagger was enchant with a damaging effect. If you don't want to use enchantments, I'm sure it'd still do well enough.

I do wonder whether we'll be able to decapitate enemies with daggers after taking the appropriate one handed power attack perk...

Unless only the two handed perks effects daggers... None of it really makes sense with what we've been told.

It'd be nice if they didn't decapitate, but instead did a throat slit or something. The decapitate with a dagger would look pretty silly with a single swing.