Ive been perusing the forums all morning, and there is another link
in where this is casually mentioned (that one handed perks do
not affect daggers).

Can anyone confirm the validity of this? If this is true, this will
change what I thought my rogue based class would be going with.

Yes they do.

the general ones do. There are no specific dagger related perks tho like there is for swords, maces and axes.

So does this mean armsman perks affects daggers too? It's been up in the air about whether they do or not.

I don't have anything to back this up, but I think daggers are a One-Handed Weapon. If you stab a guy 6 times in the face with a dagger and he dies, your 1H skill should go up. Perks that boost One-Handed Weapons in general should therefore boost daggers.

Armsman, Dual Flurry, Paralyzing Strike, etc. should all work.

But, again, I'm guessing.

Yeah, the initial info on the perk showed a exception for daggers, but that was alpha. The current reports exclude the exception, now was it excluded because it does not exist anymore or was it excluded because of brevity.

The problem is that some early descriptions for the perks said they didn't, but then later descriptions said nothing at all. I'm hoping that all of the general perks will affect daggers, even the decapitation one.

If its the latter, there will be a lot of very angry assassins!

And they should be, we quickly ran numbers when we had the alpha footage and it looked like swords would be close enough in damage fro the sneak attack that daggers would be mechanically pointless.

Thanks, Im glad to hear thats not the case. It does make
sense as someone mentioned before, because using a dagger
would have to raise the 1H skill.

For balance's sake, I kind of feel like the armsman perk shouldn't affect them. I like the idea that, a x15 sneak attack modifier + the fact that they're the fastest weapon in the game (i.e. best for spamming enchantments) means that they're normal damage isn't modified by the +% damage perk. I mean, good god. Why pick anything else, otherwise?

Edit: I wish they had maybe made it halved for daggers or maybe even just put a lesser perk in the sneak tree for their increased damage. As in, they would still level your 1H skill, but would only be upgraded by the sneak skill. So that you wouldn't see warriors running around with daggers, without having to invest in sneak for them to do a ton of damage. (And I know the x15 sneak attack bonus is in sneak, but the % damage modifier isn't)

Has it been confirmed that daggers raise 1H skill and not sneak?

I agree. The only advantage would be that daggers are harder for NPCs to detect but I imagine with high enough sneak skill that will be irrelevant.

Because a sword will still do more sneak attack damage with all of the perks if daggers aren't boosted as well.

Which is the thing that kind of pisses me off. There should've been some kind of way to make it so daggers did the best for stealth, but didn't end up being a very good straight up combat weapon, based on their speed. Really wish they had maybe added some kind extra perk for daggers and excluded them from the exact same % damage modifier as the rest.

This is infuriating not knowing whether daggers are affected by one hand perks or not... never mind whether they are governed by one-hand or sneak (I always assumed one hand...).

I worry if they are effected then why use anything else? And if they aren't they will be under powered compared to sneak attacks with swords.

It must be hell for the devs to balance this...

It would be very easy to test. It could probably be tested on your first level up. Check the damage on a dagger, invest a perk in armsman and then check the damage again. I just wish I knew now because I like to plan my builds out in advance.

There are many reasons. Daggers don't have range, and their "massive" damage would only be on sneak attacks, which you can't really do in open battle. The reason that dagger aficionados are upset is because, as has been said, swords would do more damage than daggers during those sneak attacks if daggers aren't boosted as well. If daggers are boosted, they'll still be outclassed by swords in everything but sneak attacks.

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I wish I knew now too as I also like to plan builds / characters before hand.

Daggers will probably be in the sneak tree as well so that they can be combat worthy, but much better for sneak. My guess that is if you are sneaking, it will use those perks, but if you are in combat, it will use the armsman perks.

...... Because swords, axes, and maces still have better basic DPS by far? Crap +20% is still crap.

My point was that you'd use daggers for stealth and for enchantment heavy damage, which really wouldn't need to have much base physical damage. You would use other one handers for normal combat. I'm not saying I want daggers to svck, I'm just saying that, if it's like some of the other games have been, people will just put damaging effects on daggers, use elemental fury and kill everything in about 2 seconds. But I really don't care anymore, because everyone has their own opinion, so I'm not gonna say it would definitely be overpowered without having played the game myself. I just know that I won't be using them in straight up combat, regardless of how good they may or may not be, with that perk.

Not everybody uses enchantments. It's too much of a hassle for me to keep them charged, and because rogue-assassins have so many necessary perks, I doubt many people playing as stealthy characters are going to be investing perks into the enchantment tree.

]Yea I have to agree with the last poster.

Ive already burned up 49 pts on a spreadsheet,
and it didnt take long at all:

Rogue: Alchemy, Light Armor, Lockpicking, Sneak, Pickpocket
Warrior: Archery, One Handed

Alchemy:
Total: 11

Light Armor
Total: 5

Lockpicking:
Total: 6

Sneak:
Total: 13

Pickpocket:
Total: 6

Archery:
Total:3

One Handed:
Total:5

-------------
Total spent 49 points
-------------

That leaves very little room for anything deep into any perks
that actually help in combat (like the end perks). So I would
expect daggers to at least be our main attacks, and very viable.

Would be nice if someone from Bethesda could verify yes or no.

this is good, daggers should definitely become the better sneak weapon.