Out of combat HP regen... :) : V - Skyrim

» Thu May 10, 2012 12:33 pm

I don't like it.
If I use up all my health pots and don't have any healing spells then tough break champ.
I made a choice and now I suffer the consequence.
Allowing it to regen is ridiculous, if it's really REALLY slow or if it was unlocked by a perk or something then it'd be different.
But it remains to be seen just how fast or slow the regen is, I still don't like it.
If a player makes a mistake then don't coddle them, make them learn from their mistakes.

So I am assuming that you are against magicka regen as well?

» Thu May 10, 2012 9:44 am

So I am assuming that you are against magicka regen as well?

Actually, I'm not. :/

But it should be really really really slow.

[edit]

And why I'm in favor of mana regen is because: A wound doesn't just heal instantly, it takes time, but if I were to jog or lift weights or do other manly things then I'd be pretty drained at some point, but after a while that energy will come back.

So I dunno how mana is suppose to be like, I know we have stamina, but how does mana recharge in someone?
Until that is explained I feel perfectly fine with mana regenerating at a steady enough pace (still slow) as I compare it to losing and regaining energy.

But wounds, those take time. Especially big wounds.

» Thu May 10, 2012 7:24 pm

If I use up all my health pots and don't have any healing spells then tough break champ.

Pointless corner case. There's only one specific set of circumstances where that would come up in even Oblivion. Such as you chose the sign that prevented regen and were somehow trapped near a group of enemies. Because you always had a heal spell. And you could almost always find a safe place to wait.

Game design should not cater to just those rare instances.

» Thu May 10, 2012 6:04 pm

edit: unless you find an actual bed to sleep in, then it should double or triple, sleeping in real life does aid the healing process.

I would like to see a return to "Sleep until Healed" and if that took 72 hours, well, you woke up with a full bladder. Besides, we are coming off of a game that totally regenerated your health in one sleep hour, how real was that?

» Thu May 10, 2012 9:44 pm

i think it will be a good change. there were times in OB when i was trying to get away from a tough opponent only to hunted down and slaughtered (elf'n grizzly bears!) this will help with that some

» Thu May 10, 2012 3:19 pm

Yeah, outside of combat, when you aren't fighting and not to mention it regenerates like a snail.

If you want the game to be harder play on the hardest difficulty.

A question, what is the point of this thread?(Not intended to be rude.)

» Thu May 10, 2012 3:48 pm

I remember Todd saying in an interview that they did this so people would not rely on the "wait" function to restore their HP/magicka

I'm still surprised when I hear that people did that. Never even occurred to me. (And even now that I know about it, I still don't use it in OB...... because any time you're hurt, is a great time to work on leveling your Restoration skill. :tongue:

)

» Thu May 10, 2012 11:37 am

If a player makes a mistake then don't coddle them, make them learn from their mistakes.

Actually, this is one of the reasons I like it. It means that at low levels--before I've secured my supply chain--I'm more likely to play on after taking a beating rather than reload. I think that it's a feature that will actually encourage me to take risks. If your health will slowly regen, you don't feel the same need to top off your health, which should increase the frequency with which you'll enter combat with less than maximum health.

» Thu May 10, 2012 5:57 pm

Well so you say be ambushed during resting in dungeon full of danger is "artifical difficulty" do you accept thats smart enemy will not wait until such ridiculously nonchalant character heal completely by simple resting to full power and you say player character will able fight back well in such dangerous situation, especially when we take a nap not in sewer full of rats but in an Dread Dungeon of Doom, quite interesting logic you have.

If ambushes for you are "artifical difficulty" then what is constant health regeneration from almost zero health to fully healthy in one keypress for all characters and without consequence and requirements?
I think adding health regeneration must have consequence for example you can regenerate health in such way only if current health not below certain percent
e.g you cannot simple wait one game hour to restore broken limbs and damaged internal organs (health is below of 50% of maximum) but contusions and bruises (Health is not below 80% of Maximum HP) you can.
Since health regeneration is not an skill but actual trait of character body biology better if regeneration will be tied to an Attribute or character Trait, doubtfully you can simple learn regeneration as card trick, but since attributes is out and all traits what we have is racial only, we can try bind health regeneration to certain skills as form of health care preparation during stay in camp (Firsts Aid, Medicine) for example Restoration school and Alchemy skill can affect how well you can care on your health during rest.

It is artificial because it relies solely on luck.

No matter if you cleared the dungeon or not, no matter if you are in a locked room facing the door, sitting in the corner, no matter if you've set traps you'll get ambushed.

It takes no skill, no preparation, just luck.

And it is still easily, but annoyingly avoidable by moving away from the dungeon, moving to another room or outright save-scumming.

And for the rate, it needs around a minute to get from 1 to 100 from what I've seen on level 1.

» Thu May 10, 2012 12:14 pm

Cool story bro, needs more dragons n' sh*t

» Thu May 10, 2012 1:49 pm

To an extent it depends how you envision "health" as to whether this is jarring or not.

To me, if I got stabbed in the leg I would not immediatly recover, in fact, simply "healling it" with magic or a potion is incredibly jarring too and some vocie up there rules it out - In my minds eye the health bar is more like combat endurance, representing how much fight you have left in you. If you're wearring full plate armour and take a smack off an axe, it might not have physically wounded you but it will've winded you - you'll recover from this quite quickly once you have a chance to stop and breath. (Out of combat regneration)

When the said combat endurance runs out, you end up missing a beat and taking an injury that puts you out the fight and that's the end of you (Think that spiders going to ignore you just because you're down and out?) - viewed that way, combat regeneration makes more sense than the health bar representing actual "physical intactness" and magically closing gaping wounds

» Thu May 10, 2012 12:17 pm

Daggerfall had none of this regenerating bars.
Morrowind had regenerating fatigue
Oblivion had regenerating magicka
Skyrim has regenerating health

No, TES isn't headed off a cliff, they are making the game more fun. Less sleeping more playing.

@Above: That's a really neat way to think of it. I'm going to try thinking that way when I first play and see how it goes.

» Thu May 10, 2012 7:32 pm

Might be addition due to new difficulty level. Removing that might be disastrous... Just guessing.

But if I find it inappropriate. Off course I'd mod that out.

» Thu May 10, 2012 10:50 am

...this means I don't have to press Wait after every battle? :celebration:

It only works out of combat, and its very slow. Todd explicitly said it does not replace healing spells or potions. This has been done in some of the most classic/greatest RPGs to ever exist.

But yeah...This post wont' stop people from thinking its CoD or Halo though. :sadvaultboy:

» Thu May 10, 2012 6:40 pm

I already plan to mod fallout-style injury simulation anyway if it's not in there.

» Thu May 10, 2012 8:35 am

Yeah, the "realism" complaint is kinda meaningless when the alternative is "sleeping for 8 hours fixes everything".

People don't tend to get better from severe wounds just by sleeping it off.

» Thu May 10, 2012 9:53 pm

Cool story, Bro'. You enjoy gettin' pissy over stupid stuff while the rest of us enjoy the game.

This.

» Thu May 10, 2012 12:20 pm

It is artificial because it relies solely on luck.

No matter if you cleared the dungeon or not, no matter if you are in a locked room facing the door, sitting in the corner, no matter if you've set traps you'll get ambushed.

Well this time game check was dungeon cleared or not thats can be used to decide was become area secured or not, seems you cannot set traps again unless there will be mods thats allow such feature.

It takes no skill, no preparation, just luck.

And it is still easily, but annoyingly avoidable by moving away from the dungeon, moving to another room or outright save-scumming.

Does regeneration require something then?
It even don't require luck and simple work as constant and free health restoration without of any requirements, I hope at last broken Oblivion waiting was fixed and it will no more restore all to maximum if you simple moving away from the dungeon, moving to another room or just hide with low duration invisibility to be undetected by enemy specially for activation cheat waiting.

And for the rate, it needs around a minute to get from 1 to 100 from what I've seen on level 1.

So compare it with spell of similar effect
Restore Health magnitude 1 duration 60 seconds will cost you 84 Magicka points for cast now you will have it for free and even more with constant effect without of any magic attached, oh well in previous games such powerful effect require good search like Necromancer's Amulet what have Arch-Mage Trebonius Artorius for example.

» Thu May 10, 2012 12:24 pm

Does regeneration require something then?
It even don't require luck and simple work as constant and free health restoration without of any requirements, I hope at last broken Oblivion waiting was fixed and it will no more restore all to maximum if you simple moving away from the dungeon, moving to another room or just hide with low duration invisibility to be undetected by enemy specially for activation cheat waiting.

No, it doesn't, it doesn't pretend to to have one though.

It removes needless micromanagement and annoyance, makes the game more "streamlined" if you will.

So compare it with spell of similar effect
Restore Health magnitude 1 duration 60 seconds will cost you 84 Magicka points for cast now you will have it for free and even more with constant effect without of any magic attached, oh well in previous games such powerful effect require good search like Necromancer's Amulet what have Arch-Mage Trebonius Artorius for example.

Yeah, you screwed it up a bit.

Making one spell with 60 seconds will cost you for a one time burst... and magicka regenerates.

And you can make one constant "restore health" enchantment for a really cheap prize, without resorting to epic artifacts and such.

» Thu May 10, 2012 9:46 pm

if we have the *option* to turn this feature on/off, I see no problem.

I myself, would not want automatic regen (neither for health, not for magicka).

» Thu May 10, 2012 9:01 pm

I'm fine with regenerating magicka but not regenerating health.

I hope its barely noticable like in Oblivion.

» Thu May 10, 2012 6:50 pm

Health regen > potion spamming

» Thu May 10, 2012 1:43 pm

I LIKE the idea of natural regeneration of fatigue, health, and magicka, but the rates should be miniscule (1 health point/hour) except while sleeping, where they'd be merely slow. It sounds like some peoples' idea of "gradual" means that you actually have to blink your eyes more than once until it's done. Healing hitpoints equal to your Endurance/10 would be "accellerated" far above reality, but would not be blatantly "broken" (as in watching your gaping wounds grow shut in seconds). Healing that much per minute would make Health almost irrelevant, just like so many other things in the game series have become, when they're not being removed entirely (like Endurance).

Morrowind's total lack of magicka regen became an annoyance (Mages sleeping three or four times a day), but Oblivion's too-rapid rate (wait 1 minute) but much shallower pool was its own kind of aggravation, where you could toss a weak spell every 15-20 seconds, but rarely have enough at any time to actually "finish" an encounter. I also liked the slow rate of MW's Enchantment regen, as opposed to OB's total lack of it. Oblivion's "recover fatigue by running" was just silly.

The more I hear about it, the more that this game sounds like a Combat game masquerading as a RPG. Hopefully I'm wrong, but so far I'm getting all the wrong signals from it.

» Thu May 10, 2012 10:17 pm

The more I hear about it, the more that this game sounds like a Combat game masquerading as a RPG. Hopefully I'm wrong, but so far I'm getting all the wrong signals from it.

People really need to check how "Combat games" work...

» Thu May 10, 2012 8:15 am

No, it doesn't, it doesn't pretend to to have one though.

It removes needless micromanagement and annoyance, makes the game more "streamlined" if you will.

So use spell to restore health or potion instead of waiting is needless micromanagement and annoyance, I believe thats was part of gameplay previously but with free and unlimited healing such aspects become redundant and pointless awesome streamline of useless features.

Yeah, you screwed it up a bit.

Making one spell with 60 seconds will cost you for a one time burst... and magicka regenerates.

And you can make one constant "restore health" enchantment for a really cheap prize, without resorting to epic artifacts and such.

Seems your sign suit to you well, I use this spell as example thats regeneration is powerful effect even 60 second spell will require good portion of Magicka, now it completely free and constant and there nothing thats can balance such power, BTW in Oblivion "restore health" enchantment impossible because this spell effect is forbidden for custom enchanting and in Morrowind constant effects require Grand Soul, all comes with price as you see, health regeneration without requirements in Skyrim is nothing more then another casual streamline, why they just didn't make simple step in binding of health regeneration to eaten cooked food?

Health regen > potion spamming

There is limit was introduced on number of quaffed potion in one time in Oblivion, there is no limitations on regeneration at all in Skyrim.