First and foremost, a BIG thank you goes out to jammymacster. Without him none of this would've been possible.

NOTE: If it's NOT on the list, it doesn't work. We've tested (just about) everything conclusively. Some perks are kinda iffy (or totally irrelevant), like the lockpicking perks or Warmaster in the two handed tree. If anything is affected it's only the percentage chance of it activating, and that rounds down to 3% of the time. Nearly impossible to accurately test.

Alteration: Atronach - Yes - Tested on pc, 30% spell absorbation chance becomes 37.5%
Magic Resistance - Yes - Again, tested on pc, 30% magic resist becomes 37.5%

Enchanting: No perks affected.

Smithing: No perks affected.

Heavy Armor: Only fists of steel More than 68 unarmed damage is now possible.
NOTE: Reflect blows: testing the chance of it happening was inconclusive.

Block: I can't say for sure, but elemental protection did not appear to be affected. Hard to say, as I was a breton to test (so less damage is harder to notice)
Quick reflexes = yes. No other perks affected. (note the time is 'slower' that's the effect)

Two Handed: No perks affected (inconclusinve on percentage chances like warmaster)

One handed: Dual Flurry - Yes - Tested on pc. Weaponspeedmult goes from 1.35 to 1.69. A very significant difference. Normally Weaponspeedmult is 0 but with that perk becomes 1.35 which is 135% but the Necromage does 25% of the whole 135% resulting in total of 169%, almost double! (same issue exists with percentages here as well)
Dual Savagery did not appear to be affected, but I had some trouble testing it, and will update once I figure out a way to test it better.

Archery: Steady hand* bugged, do not use. Possible that one rank is OK... more testing needed. Your ability to shoot arrows effectively while zoomed is essentially removed. Take it BEFORE your a vamp, before necromage or DON'T take it.
Quick Draw - Yes - Tested on pc. Weaponspeedmult goes from 1.30 to 1.63. Same situation as Dual Flurry.
Power Shot - Yes - Tested on pc. Staggerbonus goes from being 0.25 to 0.31.

Light Armor: Only windwalker (NOTE: percentage based problem again). Took 12.3s to fully regen with Necromage, 13.3s without Necromage. Also matches stamina regeneration formula. 5% per second regen without perks, 7.5% with Wind Walker and 8.125% with Wind Walker and Necromage. (2.5*1.25 = 3.125 + the original 5 = 8.125%) Difficult to test 100% due to human error.

Sneak: Muffle = yes (inconclusive, tested over and over, but I was having weather (cloudy/rainy etc... problems so I ragequit... ) (but this is STILL only 75% muffle and not 100%) No other perks affected. This includes sneak attack perks.

Lockpicking: It APPEARS to affect the lock perks. Others cannot be tested or are irrelevant. I measured the distance between the points (on the TV screen) where the pick would wobble slightly WITHOUT a vibration on the controller. It appeared bigger, but this is essentially impossible to confirm. Used the same lock, but clearly had to "back out" of the lock to reload the game. Either way, it wasn't significantly easier to pick locks).

Pickpocket: Extra pockets works, light fingers + other perks not affected.

Speech: No perks affected

Alchemy: No perks affected

Illusion: None* Note however that your vampire bonus is seperate from the perks, and that if you've got master of the mind, you can hit higher level undead (having necromage) than otherwise possible.

Conjuration: Atromancy - No - However, the Necromage perk boosts the duration already by 50% and Atronach does stack with that bonus. So 60s original, with Necromage 90s and then with Atromancy 180s.

Restoration: Recover - Yes - With both perks of recovery, macgika regenerates 62% faster.
Avoid Death - Yes - Recovers 312 health instead.

Note some things here. No 5/5 perks are affected so you can make a decent build while you are leveling/questing (Companions and Dark Brotherhood should be done first, as Companions removes vampirism, and the DB has a bug pretty far along that stops you from completing a quest)

Also, getting to 70 restoration for the necromage perk can leave you pretty vulnerable in combat, if you grind your way up there first thing.

I thought a lot more perks would be affected, and we were BOTH surprised by some of the findings (really fists of steel?) Anyway, if it's not on the list it's not affected or totally irrelevant (like wax key and unbreakable in lockpicking). Also, I couldn't find a way to test the speech perks on the right side of the tree, but the others definitely don't work.

Hope it helps you all. We researched this all on another forum, but I figured I'd share the wealth. Also, I did my testing on PS3, if that makes any difference.

Excellent man! Nice find and good info.

Thanks.. it's not a find though. We did the research. Long grueling hours of it. It's part of a Guide I'm writing for vampires. I appreciate the kind words though.

Good to know!

No Destruction?? Really?

Also note, that the Necromage boost to Perks is NOT retroactive. If you want to boost one of the afore mentioned perks with Necromage, purchase Necromage and become a Vampire BEFORE purchasing the perk you want affected.

On my Argonian Mage, basically the first thing i did after getting out of Helgen, was i bum rushed the College of Winterhold questline, in order to gain access to the Labyrinthian and obtain the Equilibrium spell for Restoration training. Making a Staff of the Storm Atronach in the Atronach Forge certainly helped with this, especially with Morokei. Once i reached 70 Restoration through channeling Equilibrium while casting Healing spells at the same time, i purchased the Necromage perk then went and became a Vampire. Then i spent all the perk points i had earned up to that point.

Surprised or disappointed.


Yeah... thought I had that in there. Also, if you are cured and reacquire the condition, all perks will NOT be re-effected. In short if you're cured you lose the bonuses permanently..

Does Necromage only affects perks you take after it?
That svcks.

I wonder if this whole necromage thing is an oversight by Bethesda? Did they really intend for the necromage perk to have this big of an effect on vampire players, or do they consider it to be a glitch that will soon be corrected?

Yes. Unfortunately. Still there's tons of other stuff that's awesome.


In all likelihood it's an oversite. Someone somewhere didn't think that actually flipping on the undead flag (or whatever) for a vampire PC would be that big a deal. THat said, no it won't be patched. it doesn't mess with gameplay (like make stuff glitchy I mean) and it's "fun." Haven't they said several times they don't patch those things? So even if it's unintended it's probably here to stay. At least for regular vampires.

What's frustrating is I know that they will also not fix the glitches associated with necromage either (perks not being effected retrospectively, perks not being effected when vampirism is cured and then reaquired, etc)

For enchanting:
100 skill no perk gives %25 reduce magicka school x
100 skill with perk gives %31 of the same

One potion of enchNting has a nice effect

I was pretty sure that enchanting was heavily effected by Necromage, like arch Mage robes give you %125 magicka regen instead of %100 as an example. They must have JUST recently patched that if that is the case

This is only refering to perks, and not enchantments or potions or other effects (like standing stones, shouts, blessings etc...)

AND those are the items enchantments, not the actual enchanting perks themselves. But yeah.. arch-mage robes, when you are a vampire/necro you can get three free schools of magic. A post from another place:

"When the player becomes a vampire, he is flagged as undead by the game. The necromage perk in the Restoration tree makes all spells 25% more effective against them. That includes your character. So all blessings, spells, potions and powers work 25% better and last 50% longer. This also applies to bad effects (like the fire weakness you get).

This also allows you to take the alchemy-enchanting loop even further, allowing you to make enchants that reduce spell cost by 33% at best (without the restoration potion glitch).

Next we apply the bonus from necromage:

33 * 1.25 = 41.25 = 41 (Skyrim rounds down)

With Archmage robes: (2* 41)= 82 + 18 (vamp/necro bonus) = 100% to one skill.

6 free enchanting slots, 2 enchants per school for full reduction, 3 schools at 100% reduction." –KaiserAfini

None of that involves using perks though. That's all this particular section is focused on.

I want to make a necromage vampire for dawnguard so is better to get vamparism before or after the necromage perk?

Honestly I think I will try to get the necromage perk first before I pick any other perks.

Either way, it's the same thing. Also, the ENTIRE reason we made this list was so that you wouldn't HAVE to wait to get perks. All the 5/5's are safe, like armsman, juggernaut, enchanter etc.. you won't lose anything for taking those.

But yeah, as long as you are undead and have necromage it doesn't matter which order those things happen in. Only after having both should you take any of the perks on the list. The others are safe to take.

I would be interested in reading this vampire guide you are working on, where are you going to post it?

Nice to know man thanks made a vampire for Dawnguard not long ago.

Am I allowed to say it's gonna be on GFAQS? I hope so,


You're welcome. Yeah, that's what got us (and me in particular) interested in both the research and the guide.

One the bright side boosting your fire damage via perks and taking Necromage WILL help you roast OTHER undead. -sighs happly- Nothing like seeing a Draugr Deathlord panic and run around the room in fear when you set him on fire.

Thank you very much for the info, great addition to the "nerfed" speech about vampires, yet, I find the vampiric drain very weak(thats the only complaint I have for vampires). Do you have anything regarding vamp drain getting stronger after taking the necromage perk?

Lame... But at least there is a way to respec all is not lost!

nice work! you should definitely test numbers in dawnguard because we cant really see values on xbox. I really want to know if armored trolls do get an armor rating or if the armor is just for show

Enchanting items with necromage seems to make improvements. I noticed that using the lunar forge enchantment on a weapon as a vampire makes it do 26 damage instead of 20.

Ya I just got Necromage last night for my Dark Elf Vampire Lord build and it's freaking awesome. Because of it my sneaking is 100%, my magicka and health bonuses have been raised slightly, my armor rating with the Lords stone has also gone up and my overal magic resistances has gone up slightly. A very nice perk to have for any vampires.