Let's turn it around. What is it about conventional athletes that permits their pseudo-bravado, that professional video gamers lack? Prerequisite physical prowess? What about golf, then? Table tennis? Billiards/pool? What's the cut-off point? Sportsmen are not chiefly praised for how physically powerful they are -- they're praised for their skill at a sport.

Professional video gaming requires skill. It requires fast reflexes and strategy, and even, depending on the game, can require good hand-eye coordination. (Pop-a-mole, anyone?)

The only reason professional video gaming seems any more silly than conventional professional sport is because we haven't grown up being brainwashed that it's somehow important. Professional video gaming is as important as conventional sports: that is, not at all.

Now, if you derive some kind of enjoyment from watching or pride from professionally playing either, who am I to take issue with that?

Just so I'm clear....Some of you are actually defending what this guy did as just the "norm" for fighting games?

I've played plenty of fighting games over the years (seriously, probably longer then most of you have been alive), including back in the day in arcades against guys much MUCH older then me, and there is a DEFINITE line that should never be crossed. In the heat of the moment, I understand saying things related to the game (as in lack of skill, stupid moves, calling people names) but to go beyond that and attack someone is just disgusting. Oh, and let me make it VERY clear - I've also played games online where these types of guys don't know I'm a girl at first. They "trash talk" me like everyone else, but when they find out I'm female, the "trash talk" takes a very sudden and obvious turn. It gets nastier, the things that are said are more disgusting, and it's no longer trying to "get at me" but instead do actual harm. There's a whole 'nother level of anger there. I stress that there is only a percentage of guys like this, not everyone who plays games are d-bags. But to give this guy the green light for this behavior encourages more people to act the same way.

It bothers me more then anything that some of you actually see this behavior acceptable. I don't care what I'm doing or where I am, if a guy starts talking to me like a rapist, I'm going to make it clear how inappropriate that is. If I'm playing a fighting game and the guy is near me, I assure you that fight wouldn't be on a screen. I'm not putting up with that crap.

It is NEVER ok to cross the line into creepy sixual harassment.

Endorsed.

If trash talk is a standard thing, I don't see the big deal about this. I endure this type of trash talk being called the n-word at least 50 times every day I play a pure PVP style game. I'm not suggesting things should be no-holds barred but if what was placed in the OP's quote is verbatim what actually happened (I dislike that I can't find a link to it, I actually prefer reading the article of that copy/paste than quotes), she either needs to flip out to see how much of an overreaction it is, or get them to nanny tournaments so she can stop whining and focus on playing. She reminds me a bit of an ex of mine who couldn't stand the ribbing we got going to a Sharks/Red Wings game in San Jose, being Red Wings fans and sporting Red Wings jerseys, took things far too seriously when getting trash talked, and looked extremely stupid for it, nearly crossing the (extremely busy) road in front of the arena to beat this other lady down (in front of cops mind you who were all lined up and waiting for someone to do something stupid). She needs to chill and come up with some retorts that would thoroughly embarrass him next time.

Aside from it actually being sixual harassment and you or any woman physically hitting him.....if thats the way it is then we can never be equals.

Not if you're going to change the standard of what goes on in a situation. As they said...it happens regardless.

See, here's the problem. If a woman flips out, she's often told to calm down, told she's being hysterical, can't take a joke, is probably just on her period etc. If she just says it's unacceptable, again she'll just get called humourless and told to stop whining. In many cases, the sixual harassment will not stop, instead it may turn more hostile if it's challenged. So she does her best to shrug it off and continue with the competition, and afterwards (when she's not surrounded by men, many of whom were encouraging, joining in on the harassment or simply laughing along) she addresses the issue. But obviously that's not enough, is it?
Instead of focusing on the woman for not reacting in the right way to sixual harassment, why not focus on pointing out that no one should be put in that position to begin with?
It's a shame that you have to endure being called the n-word. You shouldn't have to, not at all. But it's not the way you react that's the issue. It's the fact that people think that's acceptable trash-talk that's the issue.

I dunno, I mean, I don't mean ALL girls, but I've seen a LOT of girls play video games soley to be accepted by what one could probably consider the 'lowest' social cask, IE gamers, geeks, and nerds. When they aren't accepted as some deified gift to man soley because they have a [censored], they say it's 'unfair'. Now, I've met a lot of girl gamers who view other gamers just as I view them, IE normal gamers who enjoy the presence of other gamers, provided they are well mannered and all 'insults' are in good humour. But you have to admit there is a certain double standard in the community of where women are treated as if they were some sacred 'do not insult' thing. While I never trash talk per se (Bar exchanging light hearted quips on Minecraft or something small.), if one seeks to be treated as an equal to a certain community, one must accept the consequences that come with this. However, I do feel SOME individuals may take that opportunity to be just plain creepers, using the opportunity to say aggressive sixual things to a girl and say 'oh it's just a joke, get over it.' But I think a user's voice and attitude speaks of whether it's something good natured and childish like 'lol why dont you go make me a sandwich.' and 'why dont you flip up that shirt and get down on your knees for me girl.'

I know it defies the point, but to me 'trash talk' in good natured things, as Fighting Games supposedly are, there is a certain point when it goes from good natured 'aggression' to blatant sixual harassment and outright hostility.

Edit: Wait, so scientific terms are censored? Oh for the love of all things sacred.

Edit 2: Just as clarification, I meant the first 'insult' as being childish, the latter being crude and uncalled for. Just pointing it out in case it be misunderstood I was calling such a line 'good natured'

Ha. So true on all counts. You don't laugh, you're humourless ; you say calmly you don't appreciate that kind of comment, you're whining ; you get angry, you're PMSing. Some suggested to get violent, but then you're a crazy [censored]. Others suggested to answer in kind : and it's taken as an encouragement, or even, sadly, a come-on.

The problem about this type of situation is not really what's being said. It's that most times, not only you stuck hearing it, but you're also apparently expected to react a certain way. Very, very frustrating and irksome.

The fighting game community is, in general, terrible. The competitive gaming community is, in general, absolutely awful towards women. Combine them, and, well...

I'm sure that's true in some cases, but in this particular case, I think it's fair to say that she's not just doing it for those reasons - she's put in a lot of time and effort to get up to that level, and there are far easier ways to get attention. And this wasn't your usual trash talk - it went on for days, it was specifically sixual in nature, directed only at her, and also involved someone being physically intrusive ("If you lose I'm going to come up and sniff you... I'm going to get real close... I'm going to tell your boyfriend what you smell like").
At one point the coach says something like "I'm just getting you used to hecklers", and she replies with "Yeah, but this is different, this is creepy".
The really sad thing I think is an interview where she talks about how much she respects her new coach and how she's going to listen to everything he says and take it all on board. And all he did was guess her bra size and ask about her thighs.
When it comes to casual trash talk, then absolutely no one should be put on a pedestal. But when it veers into sixual harassment, homophobia, racism etc. then people should be aware that they have crossed a line.
The cool thing is she has come out and said that she doesn't feel like this is the norm for that community - that she's had great experiences and the vast majority of players aren't like that, just a few very bad apples that ruin it for everyone.

That's just uncalled for. I'm all for light hearted 'racism' or 'sixual discrimination' so long as the tone indicates the person you're playing is completely accepting it's a joke. But constantly being pecked at with the same quips days at a time isn't 'a joke' it's just sick and creepy. If this is a 'normal' part of fighting games competition, I think I'll sit over here in the 'weird' part of the gaming world, you know, the part that doesnt verbally harass women houndishly.

Closed for review.

Ok, let's be clear that this is being reopened and will be watched closely. It's a good discussion but it have gotten a bit offensive to both genders as well as having some political posts which aren't allowed here. So tread lightly and be careful what you post.

I despise trash talk. I see no useful purpose for it in any situation. Yes, I know it's done that some believe it gives them a competitive edge if they can "psych out" and "stress out" their opponent. But really, is that how someone wants to win? Don't you want to win because you are good at the sport or the game? Anyone can trash talk. It's easy and if you find something someone is sensitive about it may work unless they are older and have tough skin and don't react to such silly and childish maneuvers. It's quite a lame way to alter an outcome in any situation whether it be playing football, basketball, video games or playing chess. And if you are good at your event...you don't need it.

Racist, gender, or personal insults are immature no matter how you slice it and dice it and if your game is filled with immaturity nobody anywhere will take it seriously. If you feel trash talk is fine then you need to examine your motives or your need to use it. And yes, we can all "just trash talk them back" as some have suggested but to what end? Are we playing a game of "trash talk" or a fighting game?

It's not a game of wit and who has the sharpest tongue. I will go so far as to suggest that anyone who uses such tactics are usually insecure in their own abilities and it's the only way they think they can win. It's no different than hitting below the belt or pulling a gun in a fist fight. It's tacky, immature and lame.

I assure you I can out trash talk anyone anywhere because I know how to be mean, but why? I would much rather let them trash talk and ignore them. Keep silent while I beat them then watch their trash talking back walk away in shame. You see, trash talk isn't a sport, it isn't needed to be good, it's not intellectual and it takes no skill at all. All it does is show disrespect and immaturity.
And those are two things I don't care to see in anything I participate in, not because it hurts my little feelings but because it's degrading to the game, the sport or whatever it is you are doing.

Can you imagine a world chess championship where the two opponents are trash talking across the table?

So bring on the censorship and in any sort of competition, boot them out if they can't be a good sport and can't go without making racist, gender inappropriate or disrespectful remarks. If they can't control their mouths...kick them out of the competition because they obviously aren't mature enough to play well with others.

EDIT: Meh. This post was redundant.

i only skimmed through the posts but i agree with what you say here

a lot of girls are really bad about being sincere so there's no wonder they get to hear a lot of [censored]
people need to stop playing the victim and blame others all the time though, just do your part because that's really the only thing you can do

I'm of two minds on trash talk.

On the one hand, as summer said, it doesn't really have a place in the game, it's supposed to be about the sport itself, which already has established rules and codes of conduct to ensure a level playing field (literally.) At the end of the day the competitors are equal peers, and the best respect each other as such.

On the other hand, though... words are wind. A certain degree of joshing is all in the fun, especially in a directly aggressive sport such as boxing or ice hockey, as long as the blows aren't below the belt - talking about someone's mom, racist or sixist remarks, etc, irrelevant topics that seek to undermine someone's personal life rather than their aptitude for the game. Sometimes the line gets crossed, since it's difficult to always know where people stand, but what I don't like about the prevalent "modern way" is this tendency to bend backwards apologetically over the slightest affront. Some people are cut from rougher cloth, and I can't help but feel that people would be a lot happier with thicker skin rather than seeking to neutralise all perceived threats.

Generalize much? Maybe the "little boys" should man up and not use generalizations or disrespectful trash talk as a means to win. Maybe they should win because they are good instead of cruel?

i think you misunderstood my post

This is how to do ciking ya opponent out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJxqZXIxc6E

Just a little lightness since topic growing so serious.

All this talk about trash talk and what's acceptable reminded me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvK7UmOinMM

I thought of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5_hWKS1Qaw.

I'm entirely "okay" with it. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. But it is true, grouping such things with other game-related things, is often the case, and so with myself. But grouping sports and competitive gaming together? Regardless of personal opinion, the two are very far apart aside from the competitive aspect.

Chess is a sport. If that can be grouped as such, I don't see why other games can't be. It's just a mind sport instead of a physical one.

A lot of people seem to be defending the concept of trash talk on the basis of "that's how it's always been done", but that's never actually been a good reason for anything. As far as I can tell, even at its most harmless, trash talk tends to be, at best, "kind of stupid". Even without judging whether it went too far it shouldn't be defended in the first place. If something is being done in a stupid way, it should probably be changed, instead of stubbornly held on to just because it was always that way.

... well, gee, if that's the case, what's the difference between being a gamer and a fighter pilot? After all, fighter pilots sit on their butts all day smashing buttons as well, no?

It is not a question of something being merely more physically demanding than the other, or "more important" than the other. It is that bravado, or trash talk, or chest pounding do have a reason to exist, whether it is to psych your opponent or - as it is more often the case than not - to pysch yourself up into participating in activities when you are physically challenged and you are taking physical punishment.

I mean, jumping into the kiddie pool and jumping off the high dive, they both involve the same basic concept: you jumping into the water. Are you gonna go all "yeah, man! Let's go! Let's do this! WOOOOO!" before jumping into the kiddie pool? I hope not.

Ever heard the story of Mohammed Ali - probably the greatest trash talker of all time-, Ernie Terrell, and "what's my name'?
Right after Ali changed his name from Cassius Clay to Mohammed Ali, he was slated to fight Ernie Terrell. Terrell, as a way of psyching Ali out, refused to call him Ali, even made some disparaged comments about the name change. During the pre-fight press conference, he did it to Ali's face. Ali started asking, "what's my name?" Kept asking that up until the mandatory photo-op face-off, where Terrell refused to call Ali by his new name. The worst insult flung out even during the scuffle that ensued was Ali calling Terrell 'Uncle Tom" (seems like nothing today, but that carried some weight in the 60's).
During the fight, Ali proceeded to put a savage beating on Terrell, and kept asking him, "what's my name?" every time he punched him. According to the great Bert Sugar, Terrell, to his credit, kept on taking the beating, and replying "Clay" until the very end of the fight when he finally said "Ali"...

Now, THAT is trash talking. THAT is bravado. Knowing that opening your mouth is going to carry a severe consequence beyond looking like the dork you already are because you called a girl names. A punk calling me names while playing a video game? If in the same room, personally, I'd unplug the game pad and stick it so far up his behind the joystick comes out of his nose. But that's just me.