I really wish Beth did that, taking it away takes a bunch of fun out of the game.

Perhaps if Beth wants to appease the crowd of players who hated stage-4 hostility, they can put an option in the game that if selected, can turn or turn off stage-4 hostiliy. Therefore the people who enjoy stage-4 hostility for roleplaying reasons, or just for a challenge, can get this hostility back while those that whined about it, can have it their way to.

It never made much sense. Unlike Oblivion, you don't visibly change on Stage 4 in Skyrim so it always struck me as odd that people could see through you on stage 4. I always thought, since there are actually civilized vampires in the games, how much you're hated should be based on fame/infamy and personality. Sadly both things were removed from Skyrim.

Its a gameplay future more than a logical one, it made being a vampire more unique and challenging

Bethesda have to appeal to the majority of players, and the majority would want Stage-4 Hostility gone. I personally don't see the appeal in not being able to trade, talk and do quests without having to go through a bunch of effort in Calming and Sneaking, etc.

Maybe they could appease both types of players by making it so if you wear a mask (like the Dragon Priest masks), people don't attack you on sight, but if your face is on show, they do. It doesn't make much sense to me that I can be fully armoured with a mask on and people still know I'm a vampire (prior to the removal of S4 hostility). Oh well.

I dont mind the fact that you become hostile at stage 4 but i do wish there was some physical change...perhaps making you look like the vampires in Castle Volkihar the tiped ears, bat nose, large fangs....this would imply that im at the highest stage of Vampirism and it would make more sence of how NPC's can tell im stage for as - By Azura - said.

Inb4 massive retcon where the deal the Cyrodiilic strain made with Clavicus Vile is no longer a good deal that gives them power to blend in, but Clavicus actually tricking them and making them only blend in if they feed whereas all other vampires blend in all the time.

I for one am glad it's gone.

Which one? lol

The one that already pretty much happened, with werewolves soon to follow I'd much rather they adapt the gameplay to the lore (like allowing one to suppress lunar transformations through use of a ring, or getting by as a monstrous vampire by hiding your face rather than outright removal of mechanics and subsequent lore retcons just to appease general audiences) rather than them adapting the lore to the gameplay. Seriously, if you're not even going to bother maintaining a sense of lore consistency, then why even have a lore to follow for the games? I'm sure there's ways of striking a balance here and there without extensive (and generally unnecessary) retcons to the lore everywhere. Look how convoluted the Dark Brotherhood lore has gotten, for example.

It might not always be completely possible to stay true to lore, but they should try and remain as close to established lore as possible, while also creating new lore. Lore retcons need to be used sparingly, and only when it makes sense to do so in the lore chronology.

Whoa did you change your avatar back to the vampire chick, or is my computer messed up?

I didn't know there were multiple retcons, I only thought there was the one the messed up Volkihar.

Yes I did. I'm forever changing my avatar.

Oh. That one is better than the last one you had.

I don't think they should bring back stage 4 hostility since we now know that these vampires are not the Cyrodiilic vampires, so bringing back the stage 4 hostility would ruin the lore even more. Unless they add back the Cyrodiilic vampires, no stage 4 hostility.

The trouble with Beth. appeasing the majority is that it makes TES more bland, apart from being cool to be a Vampire there isn't any real change in gameplay, no different experiance of the game. It's a smaller world!


The rate they are going we are likely to get Mothership Zeta as the next DLC with and explaination that the aliens abducted the dwarves for research.

no it's actually a benefit while sure it's odd the whole stage 4 thing made things IMPOSSIBLE to do in Oblivion and in Skyrim up until the Dawnguard DLC release now the only issue is to make sure you don't get that warning sign every single time!

This right here sums up why TES lore is so botched and inconsistent: because it's at the bottom of the priority list, and thus gets shoved around on a whim to the most mainstream player demands.

I wish Bethesda would learn to say no. "I don't like having stage 4 hostility!11" No [censored]? You're not supposed to. Do you not like taking damage either? Should we remove player damage from the game so you can choose to roleplay when your character dies?

It's a downside to help balance vampirism. Downsides DO actually have purpose in games, and no you're not supposed to listen to the people that fail to see their purpose and only think "downside = bad in every way" instead of "downside = good game design, bad to have for my character but might be worth the perks that come with it." If you listen to those people then you have a walk-in-the-park game that's just damned boring.

To me both vampire and werewolf lost their "it's a curse and a blessing" feeling.

Now it feels like "hey wanna be a cool kid, like the one from the recent werewolf/vampire movies?... Not convinced?... take a look at our sixy examples...."
Are there any downsides? I would say no.

Werewolf: no resting bonus (not a problem, are there even downsides in being a werewolf?)
Vampire: reduced stats in daylight (also not a big deal) + weak to fire (ok that is a downside)
Both of them lack to provied a real change in the gameplay of the player.

In other words: Being a Vampire, walks in Sunlight. Being a Werewolf enjoing moonlight as a human/mer/cat/lizard/whatever.

And the lore is bend with the simple "It is a special form of" solution.

In other TES games i really need to adapt my gameplay or use items that help me counter a curse.
Now it is just boring, simple, and just another transformation....

Exactly. This is why the Elder Scrolls games are going downhill, and it is beyond the whole Lycanthropy/vampirism issue. But in regards to vampires, this all started with Morrowind. Noticed your character in Morrowind could barely talk to anyone if a vampire, which made quests difficult to complete. Even ingame dialogue says no vampire could blend in, because they are so hideous. People complained about the sun damage, about the difficulty in completing quests. Of course, this was fixed in Oblivion where the vampiric player could blend in if he fed(and dialogue talking about Cyrodiilic vampires actually exists in Morrowind, too! And even foreshadows about Janus Hassildor and the rest). Sun damaged only happened if the player fed on a person as well, giving him 24 hours to walk around unharmed by the sun. To stay in that stage, all the player had to do was avoid sleeping/resting and his vampirism wouldn't progress.

Yet people complained about vampirism in Oblivion:

"Why do we have to feed on people, Bethesda! It is so hard! I can't even find a sleeping person, even if there are beggars in ever damn street corner!" or "why do resist talking to me when I look like a fugly pale monster? Even if I have Vampire's Seduction to boost their disposition toward me, or feed on beggars just down the street corner, this game is too hard! Vampire gameplay svcks!"

Then Skyrim came out. Notice we don't burn in the sun as we did in Oblivion. We don't risk roasting to our deaths. Our stats are merely depleted. We also didn't get significant boons as we did in Oblivion. Feeding was the same, and the mechanics were the same, yet people attacked you this time around in stage 4, as opposed to only guards in Oblivion attacking you for being a vampire.

People cried out to Bethesda, whining why their game is so hard and why villagers were attacking them. Then Dawnguard came out . . . and let me not get started on this.

You are totally right. There are no downsides of it. You know what Vsions said on lunar transformations?


This goes to show they have good interests, but their catering more to these little kids who can't accept the fact that vampirism and Lycanthropy has its disadvantages. Lycanthropy could have been the same as Daggerfall. You have the option to transform TWICE at will, and still have forced lunar transformations. You also had to kill an innocent person to sate your bloodlust. To combat this effect, all the player needed to do was to equip Hircine's Ring and he had no bloodlust, and no forced transformations. Simple. Sinding wanted the Ring in the quest to control his forced transformations as well, so why not implement it in the game? Because people cry too much.

Exactly, and in the next game we will probably have the same vampires, and every vampire will probably give you the vampire lord form, and there won't be any downsides. Damn little kids are ruining the game.

And in Oblivion guards did not attack you at stage 4.

Wrong. Next game vampires WILL be better. I swear. There won't be any Twilight women to ruin the game, no men to petition for cooler features("cooler" as in ridiculous, such as armored sword-wielding werewolves) and no children to make the game easier!

People will wonder why Elder Scrolls VI will be so good. And why it hasn't been botched up.

HAHHAHAHAHA that is [censored] hilarious, hopefully it will be true.

I than watching on FreeTV the show TrueBlood where Vampire can buy manmake blood or drink human blood where they are either hated or blood by human. The vampire demand they cival right, human female want to have six with vampire than vampire said thousand of dollar to bite female woman and have six with then. Ounce than supermarket manger told me than man walk in wearing than KKK outfir and it wasnot Oct 31, there where black shoper in the store ready to breat up the man, the manger open up than close line to check out the man with me do the checking out just to get him out of the store before touble break out.

In the above post it could read vampire are either love or hated by human being.

Completely agree, one of the features I loved best about Far Cry 2 was the Malaria you had. Your just about to make the perfect sniper shot and your vision goes bad, you can try and stick it out and make the shot or pop the pill, or in a fire fight [censor] run find a tree or place to hide and into the pills again. It really added flavour and interest to the game.

There wasn't any trade-off for being a vampire to me, it was simply become very weak with mediocre abilities.
Werewolves had how many benefits? Seriously I wish Werewolves changed/transform every night! And Vampires should have been given the icey powers stated in their lore. D<

At least it stays consistent in that volkihar vampires are the most powerful vampires in tamriel... explains the whole surviving in the sun thing.

edit: I think the whole 'icy powers' thing was just fluff... a maneuver they used once in the past, which just made the stories more wild..