In veronicas side quest, you either buy some technology from some kid in freeside for 1000 caps [i thought he was pretty happy with the deal :celebration: ], or recover tech from old areas were no one was using it. No stealing involved. The BoS dont take medical stuff because auto docs and what not dont kill people. What will damage the world more, NCR gets a couple thousand auto docs, or NCR gets a couple thousand tanks or nukes?

As for house, this isnt fallout 3. Groups have formed, and overall the wasteland is in a much better shape, no matter what happens, mankind will survive. Mankind dosnt need saving. If you mean saving knowedge, house could just build libraries and whatnot, keep information that mankind may need once again. And he could still help people in freeside instead of wasting time and recourses building space stations on the moon, i honestly dont see how he is helping mankind.

I agree what you have said about Mr. House there. His plan was very flawd and selfish. Once again, I like the NCR because they're very stable, their leaders do svck, but the troops and citizens with enough dedication could be very strong. Eventually Col. Hsu would possibly get in to a higher spot (maybe even president if the oliver idiot were out of the way ) and then you get people that understand life. Rather than leaving everything up to pure idiotic politics.

No, thats only PART of her quest, in one path the BoS will kill 4-5 FotA on the SUSPICION she told them 'forbidden' secrets. As to the auto-docs. You're really fooled into believing that 'knights of yore' rubbish they pull? The BoS only take in weapons and power armor and any other war related tech because they are nothing more than an Al-Qaeda of technology.

As to House, you think the NCR could do better? Mr. House wants to build. What is the NCRs goal? Raiding. The NCR is a locust, it takes your land and puts the barrel to you so they can take it by force, when they have? They drain it and you of any valuable rescources to their homeland. At least House is willing to send NCR power as an electric company if you help him take over. The NCR will only keep funnelling all rescources to NCR and leave your land to rot.

The mojave becomes part of the NCR, they would probably treat it as well as they do california. They arnt stupid they know that a revolution could happen easily if they treat the people of the mojave that way. The NCR dont raid, and in the ending scenes of the campaign most people are glad of the NCR. They admit that the NCR dont care about them but they are glad they are their all the same. Hover dam is the only valuable recourse in the Mojave and people are happy the NCR are there for the most part, they keep the legion away. And house would send the power to the strip, he cares about new vegas and not the mojave.

As i explained before, the BoS people who killed the FotA where just a bunch of idiots and fanatics. and every faction has them. Some people take the Codex more seriously than others in the BoS. Veronica class A example. Colonel Moore, would you judge the NCR on her. Also the Brotherhood needs Auto docs aswell, if they were al queda why wouldnt they take auto docs. They need them to help their wounded soldiers. The only explanation is that they believe or the codex told them that advanced weaponry is the only threat.

Only because they're his "best customers". He wouldn't do it out of kindness, believe me. And he is no better than NCR when it comes to draining resources. He svcked NCR dry when they were on the front lines fighting off Legion. I don't like a man who hides behind someone else and stabs him in the back when trouble's over. I despised House from the get-go. Put a bullet in his half-circuit brain the first chance I got. Never looked back.

I'm not saying NCR is perfect either. If you talk to Marcus in Jacobstown, he has an interesting opinion about NCR.
-They expand. Fast. They keep rolling on people. They'll regret it. That's how revolutions start.
NCR is like the empires of old (Romans, Ottomans vs.). They'll expand too large and eventually they'll lose control over the land. They're already spread too thin trying to secure Mojave. Hence, uprisings. Same story that happened to every large-scale community in history.

The NCR has the only chance to unite humanity in that area. Real government means choices.

The Legion is barbaric and backward, there are no choices.

House is just one guy in Vegas, so easy to take down that he could not have lasted long.

With the average level of humanity in the game being fairly low anarchy is not a useful option. Only works for very evolved beings. So we will need to impose some order to create a society that can go forward with some chance of success for most people. Only the NCR can do that.

In my game I have yes man running house's network, I don't trust him much. I intend to back the NCR and after talking the Khans and BOS into cooperation I am hunting Fiends. I intend to kill em' all. We'll deal with Caesar soon.

QUICK, SOMEONE MAKE A PUN OUT OF STYLES NAME!

No no, not vulpes, hes brutal like caesar and would send messeges like the one at nipton. Possibly Lucius would be the better option.

I thought this was a discussion on the factions as a whole, not pick your favourite, defend it as perfect untill death.
Then tear into the others because they're not it.

I liked House more than I thought I would, however he would have been vastly different if the PC was played as darker.
I hated CL untill I killed caeser and met Lanius, now I just dislike them for what they are, and what they could have become.
I Loved the NCR, now I see them as not all there and greyer by the end of the game.
I love the Khans, still do, but they should have grown up and left years back.
I like the FotA, but again see bad things coming unless they get away from the Mojave.

You see leave the fandom out of it, pros and cons.
Or this post may get locked too, if someone takes this too seriously and starts to bait or rant.

Caesar is better Option than Lanius.

Lanius doesn't have the mindset to run a country/civilization.


And speaking of Caesar, he's the best option.

Brutal? Yes. But how else could you bring stability to the Waste Lands?

House - 8/9 I like the fella, admittedly I do believe in the progress of the individual benefiting the many, slightly Randyan (but less special) but nonetheless, I'd rather 500 men were saved than a thousand die of starvation, splitting the food evenly. He is also one of the only men alive capable of completing his dream, a good dream. I do disagree with him in parts, I dislike some of his approaches and feel he could benefit himself and others by being a little more altruistic.

NCR - 4 I like the people, they are after all just people, men and women doing their thing to survive. I despise the bureaucracy of it, a standard dislike of mine epitomised by the NCR and their myriad failings. Mentioned already in this thread is their inability to deal with a simple group of raiders, inability to kick some deathclaws out, inability to root out enemy spies, inability to do anything that isn't writ by order from someone above them and inability to elect someone who isn't an incompetent twerp with a superiority complex and the intellect of a radroach on roids. They are simply too weak, if they fail at Hoover Dam (ie if the PC does not support them explicitly) then I foresee them steadily collapsing. They push themselves too thin, fail to secure their borders then wonder why they are hated by the taxed and unsupported traders. Fools.

CL - 6 I need to know more to make a fair judgement. I dislike Caesar and think if he continues to lead them they will devolve into nothing more than the rabid killers many portray them as. I like their ability to actually fight a war (my god, they actually gather intel...) and their resilience is impressive. I despise their treatment of people, notably at Nipton (though it always makes me think of that quote; they came for the jews, but I did not resist for I was not Jewish and so on...'sigh' humanity) but in general, crucifixion is an horrific way to die and to inflict on so many... Regardless, they are viable, more so than the NCR for future rule. I disagree with their wartime behaviour, but not necessarily their tactics (one major disagreement is the fear went too far, when people would rather die than be caught you make your own enemies formidable)...So yes, need to know more really.

FotA - 9/10 I like them, I think they're naive and sometimes ridiculously so but their general behaviour...to be so giving in such a world is remarkable.

BoS - 2/3 Tribals with big guns. Seriously pathetic lot of people, they're worse than the NCR for bureaucracy, just as bad as CL for brutality and imo equivalent to the Enclave in their treatment of others. Just pathetic.

Great Khans - 7 I like them again, despite (once?) being raiders, a seriously interesting view of them, to see them so destroyed...I always feel so bad, to see proud warriors broken like that hits me hard, mixing them with FotA is lovely.

I'm in~

Ceaser's Legion does have alot of negative aspects, but that makes me want to see how it's soceity, its herdiarchy works within its own lands. I mean we got some NCR in Fallout 2 (A bit barely but still), so we should get to see what the "Monster of the East" operates on its own lands. How thing's are controlled, what is allowed and what isn't, etc. That and seeing that I'd like to see a Ceaser's Legion try to go on without the 'Ceaser' they had in New Vegas. Since it was his charisma that had them together in unity and faith(for him), while the legates would be the reason to not part ways with the Legion. Fear and charismatic reflections to make Ceaser's Legion look both interesting yet terrifing if you find yourself in a bad situation. That and if they worship Ceaser as the son of Mars (Roman god of war), then it'd be fascinated at how the Legion will go on without his charisma readings. (Must be over 9,000 I swear..)

NCR was protrayed poorly in New Vegas for a nation that posses itself to have the largest army and the purest of goals. It's weak status would set most players off, and maybe grow suspicious at why they were protrayed this particular way. Though I did enjoy their prattiling about 'building a better land in the Mojave' when it was obvious they wanted the complete domination of the electrical resources. That being Hoover Dam and the HELIOS One power station. Although I do expect Obsidian to rather show the rough destructive side of the NCR again, along with its idealistic side. Then it'd be more attractive of a faction towards players who seem to lean to that sort of stuff, even though I'm very much anti-NCR. The things that should be at least thought more on are the tales of genocide against raiders and such. (Example; Goodsprings.) I mean we're only told two sides by two people. That being Boone and Big Papa. Boone being regretful of his past but self assured that the NCR did a mistake on their part. Big Papa the polar opposite; sure that the NCR would kill any in their way in order to erradicate their former enemy. The Khans. (Who have survived Fallout 1 and 2. Huh...well I lost my bet.) Though some aspects I liked, such as the ranger posts and the Veteran Ranger Armor. Though I did have a disagreement with faction armor and it's constant...'giving you faction' notice when it would be better to customize the armor itself to suit your interests whether militarily or for fun. Anyways the beaucratic parts were enjoyable to see that 'darker' side of the NCR, though should be expanded upon more. That and how, exactly, the bonds between military and the legislative branch were growing thinner and thinner during the time of the Mojave-War.


Great Khans were unexpected. Since I was pretty sure of myself that they would die off in Fallout 2, since the only reason they survived was because of the son of the father you killed in Fallout 1 surviving and vowing for revenge. Other then that....I dont see how the Great Khans could have survived that, which should have its own story of their exodus to the Mojave and beyond into wyoming. Though their chem trades were a bit..one sided. Although you can convince them to create both helpful chems and some unhelpful ones, it's never given a second thought after that. Just "OK we'll do it if the profits are good". I mean there would be a significant amount to changing the chem trade, and some resistance to it from the Great Khans. (Since they'd do trading deals with the Fiends, who were one of their main suppliers.) That and where are the supplies the Great Khans would obtain in order to survive if they are reduced to a 'refugee' status since GoodSprings. Since the Fiends don't have that supplies, nor would they honestly care to steal some from the corpses of the NCR nor from raided towns. (Such s Westside.)

Brotherhood of Steel....eeh. It was nice to see them again as their 'original' selves (basically jerks to anyone who has technology, and isolate the Brotherhood by having selective membership), though they were placed at the same position the Great Khans were, as were the NCR. Weak, refugee position where they are beliving a war is going on against them that will end painfully. They're experience in the Mojave? HELIOS One, which is strange how it took so long for Elijah's 'weapon' to be activated. Interesting when it came to the military leader getting very angry at the Elder's decisions to isolate the Brotherhood from the world, and wanting to just conquer all those who opposed the Brtherhood. While the quests did make sense, it ultimately didn't amount to much. What happened to the secret brotherhood that made you go 'WAAAAAT' in Fallout 1 and 2? Their power just went 'poof', as if this war was that devistating and they only hid in this bunker. (Hidden Valley, lulz name) I'd like some more variety and showing of power in the next DLCs or games, to get a feel of how people no only envied the Brotherhood but feared them.

Deathclaws(I will consider them a faction in order to place some ideas to them); while it is nice to get back to the old classical times of the superstrong Deathclaw Mothers and the feared Deathclaws from Fallout, there has to be something more to them then just beasts of destruction. Considering in Fallout 2, two intelligent Deathclaws survived the genocide there would have to be some group of intelligent Deathclaws. Or even gaining intelligence through natural process, as they develop more so will their minds. That and we didn't see much of them, nor any quests relating to them besides Sloan's. They seemed distant even though there was a decent amount of them. I'd like to see some more expansions on how the Deathclaws adapt, how they survive, and how they develop within their enviorment. To understand the Deathclaw, and to show them as creatures if they were in reality would be an amazing phenomena. That and a great move to move towards Deathclaw Broods as a faction entirely.

I don't have much to say on the Followers of the Apocalypse, since they pretty much never changed from the first game. Besides their teachings going against NCR, and expansion I'd like to see some of their original teachings as well. Warning the remnants of humanity the horrors of the Great War can be re-made again, just this time without any Vault's to save us from our inveitable destruction within the Fallout universe.

Mr House...what is there to say about the 200 year old roboco founder, and ruler of New Vegas that hasn't been mostly said? I do, indeed, like the idea of a great human mind within the Fallout universe that seems to be almost inhumane considering what most would think but...it seems almost a carbon copy of Bioshock's "Ayn Rand". Both are nearly the same personality; that the individual benefit shall overcome all and that their minds surpass all others within the realms of this universe. But, there are flaws that show they are nearly identifical. They both seek to create a paradise within a world of Chaos...they both are incrediable intelligent human beings but are very much overcome by their own egotisitcal and greedy ways which shall destroy them both in the end. House is just the futuristic Ayn Rand in personality and plot. Other then this, (And the courier not being told "Would you kindly help me make Vegas minez?") the character of House is ok. But it does get evident that House seems to detach more from New Vegas as he tries to make it a star among the desert. As he will solely focus on New Vegas, his plans are short if he wants the "Free Economic Zone of New Vegas" to be truly 'free' and not just an autonomus territory around an NCR controlled Mojave.

The rest of the factions can't really have a detailed explaniation unless we get more then just 'we blow stuff up' or 'we want to be independent of the NCR'.

So for scores;

CL; 5
NCR;2
GK; 6
BOS;6
Deathclaws; 6ish, leaning towards 5.9 or 5.7
Mr House; 4.9

So does anyone have anything positive to say about the Fiends?

(also damn, I hate it when mods move threads to Spoilers. )

Not really, the Fiends are a byproduct of the game having a less deadly dossage of drugs from the original games which there were many negative effects from using. (Whether be Pyscho or too much Stimpack.)

I could almost have a sort of empathy for them, but they are merely raiders. They're existence in the Mojave is almost like a sad replay of Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 raider gangs. Such as the Khans, Vipers, and Jackals. Only back then, there was more morality and sympath with some groups. Such as when you're in Bone-Yard and have to solve a murder crime which eventually becomes a whole conspiracy itself.

But with the Fiends...they're just raiders. No real things to have positive emotions about, and the only empathy people would have for raider gangs as if when they are at a dying egde and beg for mercy. Only some factions don't tolerate this,( Mid Western Brotherhood sent them to camps, which I fully enjoyed) while others use them as mere reactants of war in their chemical equation to find a product of victory.

Ceaser's Legion has been using the Fiends ever since their loss at the First Battle of Hoover Dam, this is assured. It then doesn't become a question of 'their life style' as it becomes 'killing mindless drug addicts and saving lives, or allowing them to roam with destruction?".

White Glove Society all the way.

I'm liking the little glimmers of Legion love in this topic. And by Legion love I mean not everybody completely hates them.

I prefer to let Yes Man out of this discussion because its views on the Mojave totally depend on the character of the Courier. I think it is obvious that only Mr House has a decent outlook on the future of Vegas. The NCR is mostly there because of the resources (clean water, electricity). It's not without reason that some of the first things they did after arriving in the Mojave area were taking Hoover Dam and HELIOS. Both places that can create electricity. Also, Hoover Dam allows access to the clean water of Lake Mead. It's not really clear to me why the Legion is in the Mojave. Yes, Caesar wants to take Vegas as his Rome, but other than that I think it's mostly because of what Legate Lanius says: "All beneath the flag of the Great Bear exist to test the strength of the Legion". The NCR is here, so the Legion is here too, just to kick their @ss.
However, House has a decent plan of action, has no problems with corrupt officials and beaurocracy like the NCR and actually has a goal for Vegas and mankind. Say the NCR takes the region, what then? They want to drain it of clean water, electricity and caps by sending the Dam's energy back home and draining the locals dry of caps by raising taxes. Say the Legion takes the region, what then? The area will probably be more safe than when the NCR is in control, but the Legion doesn't protect the locals from the cruelty of it's own legionaries, so there still is a pretty big chance of ending up on a cross or being eaten by some insane Centurion.

Honestly, I cant completely hate them. Because they were so underdeveloped and for a major faction had a minor role.
I cant hate them ebcause I really didnt know enough about them. I know they are slavers, raiders and sadists. But I know nothing about thier culture, our how thier society works, we only see a few camps and that is them at war. We really shold have seen legion bases set up (plenty of space to do it. And see how thier towns are, much like how we saw the ncr. Its a shame we couldnt see legion terriroty but I cant hate them because I only know they are ruthless, but bring order wherever they go.

NCR 1/10 They have very few redeming qualities. Listen to the NCR people in the Mojave "we wil lspill the boood of anyone who opposes out peace efforts" "the great khans got the right idea, this is our land now" they dont care about the people, they just want resources. Them claiming to be champions of democracy is just a trick, they are doing it so people will be less hostile, but its just a disguise to hide thier real motives, of control and if you have something they want they will take it. Thier treaty with house, was done solely because of the legion, and then if you go down the ncr route they hire you to assassinate him. And Tandi had raiders/mercs attack vault city, and the ncr would ask them to join and offer "protection" no different to caesers legions slavery. Infact it makes them more dangerous than the legion, because you can see the legion, but the ncr hides behind politics. They are going down the exact same route the old American goverment did. And we know how that ended up, and its funny they are becoming just like the enclave, ok they arent attmepting genocide, but if your not with the ncr you will be crushed by them. Also bittersprings.

Mr house 9/10 This guy is great, he created an amazing economy, he is a technological genius, predicted the war, saved vegas, and could have done a better jo had the chip arrived. He was off by one day. He is the only hope of recover the world has. My only issue was him wiping out the BoS, its a minor thing. But I am no fan of the BoS, but I think house could supply laser weapons to them and get them to work for him, but I can also see why he wants them gone. Also I did have issues with him and the kings, but now I just start a war, because I have grown to hate the ncr. Besides any other factions ask to kill him, house sends you to save thier president. He could let him die, he could have him killed, house is truley a paragon, his actions and accomplishments show this.

BoS 4/5 /10 I found them to be likeable people... Well I didnt hate them and thinkthey could have been useful, but they are also like house said only after weapons technology so they can kill people. So I fond the people ok, but thie goals are an issue. They could change thier ways, I mean house domesticated tribals I think with the right persuasion he could have put them to good use.

Powder gangers 1/10 why do you even exist...

Great khans 8/10 Ok they are drug dealers, but there are worse things. I dont know why, but I liked them.

FoTA 8/10 They are good people, good intentions, but I completed the white wash, and well I wasnt so fond of them anymore. yes it was for west sides survival, but stealing something, then killing the man who wants it back is wrong. Besides westside has slavers, junkies and hokers. Not worth saving imo. But overall aside from that guy I liked them. If only killing him didnt lower my reputation, even when it was self defence.

Kings 9/10 I liked the "every man is a king in his own right" and its perfectly reasonable for them to not want the ncr in the region. Just kill Pacer and you have great people.

Think thats all of them. But TL:DR version
House = Awesome
NCR = Abomination

Someone mentioned white glove in that case

White glove 8/10 the masks are creepy/weird but kill mortimer and you have a nice group.
Chairmen 9/10 I dont know much, but the fact they havent relapsed makes them a great faction in my group.
Omertas 3/10 They get hokers hooked to save caps, planned to start a killing spree, protected clannden, set up troike, try to kill the omerta who left. All in all, they can all die. I hope after cachino takes over that place cleans up, if not, well i killed 2 Omertas I can kill the last leader.