After a post someone made about a decent discussion of the Legion, I would like to have a civil discussion about the Factions and the values they have in New Vegas..

Try to not burn this thread.

So, what do people think about the faction views on things, and how they do it?

You got Ninja'd on a large scale.

Were you referring to the Factions topic? or that other one... hm.

I pretty much like all of the factions and how they work, except the fiends and boomers, probably only disliked the fiends cos' they were all crammed into one place.

Bad 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Good


NCR - 8 = I like what they are doing, but they have poor leadership and corruption. They aren't doing anything blatantly "evil" tho (cept bitter springs, tho that's a leadership thing too)

CL - 2 = They may offer safety and stability but i disagree with too much of their other practices

House - 6 = As I have never played a house game, i am not entirely sure of his ideals. He isn't doing anything bad though

Yes Man - 4 = I would not be happy if some dude from nowhere came and took over the area i was living in, lol

Great Khans - 4 = Well, idk about them either really, but, well, drugs r bad

Enclave - 3 = They are pretty evil, etc.

BoS - 9 = WOOOOO! Go BoS!!! ...ahem.... I like them, but they need to adapt more to survive

They are reaaaaally bad with leaders, If they had Tandi my opinion of them would probably be different, seeing that she seemed to have a better control of things.

I say ncr and cl are a five, they both have bad and good sides which I think weigh equally.

Khans need to sober up then they may be ok.

House shouldn't have kicked out the other tribes and could easily absorb freeside.

The only good people are the followers and the kings.

Thank you Boradam, a polite discussion is exactly what I was looking for

Personally I find the view of Mr. House's faction (aka Mr. House's views) to be the one that makes the most sense.

I also have some interest in the Legion's view of things though as well. They seem to have a knack for keeping order in a land which has gone without it for some time.

The NCR's views of a large ineffective beaucracy is something I don't like though....

I can sort of see how House has a point of view, but I don't understand it all so I'm currently trying to playthrough a character siding with 'em.

The Legion has the most varity in it's views, and it's certainly intresting sometimes, I like how they planned things ahead by planting agents in factions.

I agree, It seems that besides the technological differences, the Legion is generally a more effective military force than the NCR. Makes sense though.

They seem to have the best tactics and military training, and powerful weapons (just not in great supply) as evidenced by assassin's, I honestly think that they could have taken the BoS on a full scale war, but at the cost of many men.

I don't see the appeal in the BoS in this game, they take waaaay to long to resolve.

The best neutral run I had was with House, altough I generally dislike him for some reason.
It was the best, and seemed most open to a happy Mojave.

CL I keep saying this, but without caesar himself I see them as heading to better things, with him I see failure.
NCR, I really like the people, Kimball bores me, and some higher ups make me crotchety, I generally see them doing well but not perfect.
Khans, love them but they really should have upped sticks years ago, as they had no allies or friends to support them.
Kings, Elvis lives but needs a pointer not a hound dog.
FotA, two things I really see with them.
Either they grow up fast and lose alot of the good they do, or they die young but with a lasting echo,

My ratings for how i like to factions, 1-10

NCR - 6
Legion - 8
BoS - 6
Great Khans - 8
Fiends - 3
Enclave - 7
House - 7

This is nothing to do with there views or beliefs,
this is just how fun they are to RP or how "cool" i find them as a faction.

FotA and the Fiends are the only black/white factions I've seen in this game.

Fiends are downright evil, and FotA is the nicest thing in the wasteland. (Sometimes scary though..)

The NCR is appearently a corrupt, invading cleptocracy but it's citizens have a relatively safe life. It's a bit like the early (and a few current!) european democracies in that regard.
To quote Churchill, "The malice of the wicked was reinforced by the weakness of the virtueous."

As mentioned in that other topic, I see the Legion as a necessary evil to build a future pseudo-democracy from, once law and order have been established. The mid west it came from was largely anarchistic which it has remedied (at a great cost, obviously). Hopefully a benevolent dictactor will lead the Legion one day and eventually turn it into some sort of represented goverment.

House is a mildly benevolent or indifferent dictator. Vegas prospers but bleeds as it's ruled by cannibals and faux mobsters. I'm not quite sure what his master plan is (launching humanity into space?), but I'll guess he will upload himself as an AI and abandon NV once he gets close to completing it.

The BoS is a dying relic. They care more for preserving the fruits of the past for themselves than building the future, so they'll eventually fade away.

The Enclave arent necesarily evil, they just do what is better for the United States

The BOS just follow the codex and dont like to share technology with other people

NCR are just collapsing themselves, Crocket and that other Colonel in Mccarran are maybe the only good options for prosperation

The Master Remnants are doomed IMO. at least they find some way to reproduce

I thought houses main plan was to restore Vegas and keep it independant for as long as it can be?

I don't like the BoS very much anymore, they were cool at first, but really the Power-armor is the only decent thing about them to me.

I would sorta agree with this but I would say that I think one of the main faults of the Legion is that it will most likely not outlive it's namesake (Caesar) for very long if something isn't changed.

Caesar is the type of leader which history has seen many times, (Alexander the Great being the best example) someone who can conquer and create a nation, but can't make that nation endure and be truly strong in terms of its longevity.

I have no real favourite faction they all have their pros and cons but I don’t know if this is intentional but the way I look at it is the main 3 factions are representation of different parts of the Roman Republic before it became an empire by cease.

House is the cetin trying to take total control
CL obviously the military force trying to take control
NCR are the corruption on the republic

sorry for the spelling

Yes, strangely I liked the fiends more than CL, to start with.
When I talked to MR it seemed like you could reason with him and he had a balance going.
Then I found the Freeside sidequests and not so much now.

FotA I say are good, however niave in spirit.
Then you see all the guards they have, and the comments from them saying if the FotA can get some better firepower for them.
I could see them as a force if pushed or corrupted, or just getting pushed out and finding a home in which they effectively disband.
Like a university or installation for education,


Yes, I think that's the cause of it, although unlike Alexander facing a crisis with his own nation and those he built in support.
I see caesar as a small man with a little knowledge that found an opening to power with those ignorant of what he offered.
Worshipped but not loved, I felt that caesar gone was excepted more akin to relief than grief.
Honestly he talks of savage tribals scraping amongst themselves, then shows them brutality beyond their imagination.

He says at one point that he will launch humans into space within 100 years, so I'm guessing that that is his master plan.

And yeah, the BoS are pretty much neanderthals (with big guns!). They'll die out or get absorbed, unless they roll up their sleeves and start doing things instead of being jerks.

Oh, I thought that was just an example of what he could acomplish, I never knew he was serious about that.

This bit was actually intended for the other thread, but then it was locked(for obvious reasons). So I shall post it here.

I would like to bring up the point that, as Marcus(who, as far as I can tell, seems pretty knowledgeable, smart, and logical) himself states(and quite a few others bring up, actually), that most people are following Caesar. Not Caesar's ideals. Everyone agrees, from my experience thus far, that while the Legion can and will continue after him, that they can't last for too long most likely. If anyone could make a counter argument to that, I'd be honestly interested to hear it. I grew sort of curious more and more as I read through this thread and noticed it was never a point brought up-as most argue it isn't the general morality that the appreciate of the Legion, but rather the promise of stability. Obviously, there won't be stability if the whole thing falls apart.

I personally am against the Legion-though the arguments here brought up valid points I was ignorant of before, enough to make me understand why some supported the guy and faction in-game.

Caesar's Legion promises stability, but at a gigantic cost of liberty(even for the men who aren't slaves), individuality, and thus possibly(for some) general happiness. And, of course, don't forget you'd likely be in fear of your own life half of the time anyways, because the people who are supposed to protect you will happily torture and/or kill you at any time it seems appropriate to them.
And while leadership after Caesar may improve, it could also just as easily deteriorate into someone crazier and more horrible. There's no guarantee that the faction can maintain a good leader, and if they get a horrible leader(who is also a dictator/"autocrat"), there isn't any system to take them down.

Not to say the NCR is a "good" option, I actually grow less fond of both every day it seems. The NCR would be great, if the system they set up actually did what it was supposed to.

I suppose I ought to elaborate on the NCR, actually.

I love their ideals(or most, if not all), I really do. But I have a pretty big problem with how they impose their will on everyone and everything. And, it seems, rather than focus on the quality of the NCR's already owned territory, they focus on the quantity of that territory and thus obsessing over military efforts. Meanwhile the places actually under its power suffer from lack of support on their part, likely support they didn't even originally want(or might even still not want) when it comes to civilizations in Nevada. The worst part is that the people at the top seem to either be dumb about carrying out their own ideals, or simply don't even believe or care about them. And it doesn't seem like that leadership and "strictly following orders" bit(which comes up as a problem in situations like Bitter Springs) is going to be solved anytime soon with them.

I would, however, take them over the Legion any day. If I was forced to pick one of the two.

On the matter of Mr. House I have even more mixed feelings toward than with the NCR. He promises, and seems entirely capable(based on both his logic and his seeming lack of limitations due to the sources available to him) of fulfilling those promises, to restore humanity. Yet, so far in the game for myself, I have no idea how he intends to live forever-and then the leadership could pass down to anyone(which is my same argument with Caesar). Sure, maybe the new leader followed him well enough to be a good person to be under the rule of-but he or she could be far worse(this includes the fact that it would possibly be the Courier). Certainly he or she could easily be far worse than Benny, who was previously meant to take power after Mr. House.

Plus I'm already aware that there are certain things he would do that I strongly disagree with, and I wouldn't be surprised if he made other such actions. Though, thus far, aside from the fact he'll be an autocrat and such, he actually seems like a decent option.


As for the Brotherhood of Steel, I really don't mind them(and would rather they be left alone) so long as they don't grow to be a serious threat to others. As they clearly would cause some trouble, just to own their own technology, if they had the ability.

I obviously don't know it, but I'm guessing it is ^^
It'll be impossible to keep Vegas independent forever, so he will probably only keep it so for as long as he needs.

It's a bit of a flawed plan though. Why colonize other planets when the world around him is already being rebuilt?

@ Tick: I honestly think that Lanius would be a better leader than Caesar.