Ok, Item degradation would've been nice.

Except for that, the mechanics have been improved in every way. Oblivion's magic system didn't have depth, it had clutter. It was awful. And as much as I enjoyed moonwalking with 100 Acrobatics in MW and OB, it cluttered the game and really needed to be removed or improved.

As far as your combat strategies, the Heavy Armor perk "cushioned" (Which I just got in-game) does a much better job of acrobatics for your strategy of dropping in and surprising them.

And while we're on the subject of perks - wow. They are fantastic. Not only do they give you the sensation of actually leveling up and progressing in game, they create an incredible amount of depth. And I mean depth, because there is a big difference between what Oblivion had and what constitutes an immersive game.

Skyrim wasn't streamlined and it did not become an action game, it was ORGANIZED and it has much more depth than Oblivion - maybe even more than Morrowind.

and you are
even if I would agree with you (which i don't) it would be an opinion you and I shared and not some fact objectively established

yes they tried to cater to a wider audience and made some compromises that hurt the game in your opinion
can't deny that
but to think your opinon is the absolute truth and can't be argued with PERIOD!, now that would be thick

And today on the internet, it's fanbhoiz vs trolls, round 42⁶⁶⁶. And as always, no clear winner has emerged!

But seriously, it's possible to play a pure mage this time round, so I'm happy.

I just played for 10 hours straight and never got to a new area where I didn't stop just to take everything in. Never got in a big fight where I didn't feel accomplished as hell for getting out of it alive.

If you'd like to play games that involve piles of spreadsheets, dice, and pocket protectors, they make plenty of those already. I'll stick with this, thanks.

I'm one of those guys who thinks Daggerfall isn't complicated enough. I generally like it when more things are added to a TES game, but I do only use them if they are fun. Thankfully, being a PC player I expect modders, who are naturally able to have more focus on their specific project, will be able to add somethings in that are fun.

Vanilla Skyrim is a better game than vanilla Oblivion. In a lot of ways it's even better than my heavily-modded copy of Oblivion, especially since some of the features of those mods were added to Skyrim. How many hours did some of us spend installing mods to get Open Cities (any version) to work with Unique Landscapes? bleagh! Skyrim's cities are nicer already.

My biggest complaints are UI element. The map is visually cluttered, the 3D perk-tree thing is hard to scan, and in nearly 20 years they haven't figured out that grid-based inventories are faster than vertical lists.

Oh yeah, the lack of diverse clothing bugs me too. How am I supposed to let my girlfriend play dress-up with my character now?

Its funny most of the people complaining about the simplification are people who havent played it yet. Heres a thought. Play the game, and you will not miss those things you are whining about. This goes out to Voice of Reason and Kitty.

Not at all.

I was worried about the attributes, but now that I've played it I'm totally cool with the new system. The perk system is much more in-depth than both Morrowind and Oblivion, and the world itself is just fantastic. It's a really great game. I hope Beth continues down this direction.

Thank you. Once you play the game, you realize its not dumbed down at all. Its simply better. Sure you do miss out on the fun of making a crazy fortify acrobatics potion or armor or whatever but its worth it.

Fortify is still there though right? As an ingredient and spell? I mean for the things that are there, like Magicka and Health.

Oh yea most definitely. Just cant fortify a skill that isn't there.

I actually think it's more complicated this time around, but it flows better. Yeah, it isn't as statistical, but it's more varied. The weapons are more varied based on race and the idea of improving weapons helps.

Feels like they've taken 4 steps forward, and 4 steps backward. It's better than Oblivion, but it should be a lot better.

... Ermmm, Morrowind has a grid-based inventory...

Yes, and it was meh at best.

Skyrim is deeper and more complex/exciting than any past elder scrolls game. Attributes were a useless pain in the ass, whereas perks are exciting, usable, tangible

You can turn subtitles on in the menu under "display."

I never did anything to increase speed and still needed to creap along at a snails pace as to not loose sight of any NPC character I was traveling with in oblivion.

See, I never had this problem. I have always played RPGs and I have played the TES series. So I know what classes work for me.

I find in Skyrim it being very hard and difficult being what I want to be. I wanted a Pure Mage character, but now I have some skills in one handed blade because I needed to pick up a dagger because my magic ran out. I don't understand why they didn't use a Fable 3 system. Press the button and a simple burst of magic [like Oblivion] appears. Hold the button and you get the lalalala awesome magic of Skyrim. I much rather press than hold. Because I feel hold is what drains my powers much quicker. I can take a few swings with my sword and stamina is barely touched.

Low level magic is very hard. And mages are even harded in this game with their constant stream of magic.


Not true. I even hate the UI and I'm a console player. Oblivion's UI was much simpler than this. I don't understand why the Quest didn't stay in the Inventory. I hate having to press start to see quest and press B for the inventory of magic, items, etc. Quest should have been with magic, level up, map, and items. And they all should have been in one area. Not a four pointed star of options.

i played skyrim on xbox360 for abot 15 hrs now...
ive finished oblivion and morrowind in the past and like them both...despite their little bugs...

here are my point for skyrim

pro
the main story is more fun and wellmade
the graphic are a bit better including the animation(but color are fade not to mention the texture)
the combat are the best for all class
the new forge/creation mode is great

con
the character creation is way to basic
the new system menu is way to simplified for a rpg(no item detail,no character preview when equip,no stats like agility,strenght etc...)
not a big difference between race during gameplay
the new overhead map is a bit hard to navigate thru(no fullscreen option)
lost of thing like item degradation, the memory of the last position in the menu like the map,mortar/pestle in inventory?, and etc...

i think where oblivion was great ,skyrim is bad and vice-versa...skyrim is not a game that is improving but different...in my opinion.

Your list is quite accurate.

Especially the character creation.

The character creation of Skyrim was to be the baby of Fallout 3 and Oblivion. Not this half ass watered down customization from flippin 2003.

I agree completely. Indeed, this game holds your hand far less than Oblivion and is in many ways a move back to the gameplay of Morrowind. I am simply bewildered by this thread.

They should have kept attributes in to increase character variety but the leveling system works far, far better for the game than the prior system ever did. I'm having ass-loads of fun with the game and it feels like my stats and equipment matter with regards to gameplay far more than they did in previous games. Whereas in Morrowind and Oblivion I could just barrel through the entire game with a single sword in hand, switching between damage dealing and healing as needed and come out just fine in Skyrim I'm constantly having to adjust my tactics to suit my foes.

My only real gripe is that, yes, some of you were right in that things have been dumbed down. The magic system looks and feels more dynamic but it seems to be lacking that flexibility we were promised. Spell effectiveness doesn't improve with ability, which is how it would have made sense to do it given that there are enchantments, perks, and potions that reduce casting cost. That alone would have greatly improved the way the game plays. Also, those charge-up spells that I thought we could fire off rapidly? We can't. You have to charge them and then cast them as they are. Somehow both of these ideas were thrown around a hell of a lot on the forums and people just kept repeating them until they were regarded as truth. I am sorely guilty of this. Then the leak came and people were reporting on it. Somehow the phrase "300 spells" came up and got thrown around as well and people relaxed a bit, thinking "oh, there's no . And it was a hope-blind lie. And now we find they've removed standbys like water walking and open locks, and there doesn't seem to be any justification for it.

So once again, the modders will have to step in and clean up. There's so much stuff to do in this game and there's so many new things to absorb, and they've fallen short on the fundamentals. The chaff has been cut. There is nothing in the game that is pointless or lacking a place. It's very clean and neat and tidy and well-balanced. But it's a little dry.

Still the most fun I've had in a very long time though.

touche.