No worries mate, I am getting it anyway cause I just love Stealth haha

BTW in Splinter Cell you can also finish the levels without killing anyone being the perfect Ghost, or kill everyone being a ruthless agent, and it is not a linear game at all, it is Sand Box style, I read in a couple of different threads that Dishonored will be the same, it won't be an open world experience, but more linear or level based, something like that.

There are plenty of other stealth/action 3rd person games for those who want that, lets keep this one FP so we finally have something different and challenging. (3rd person makes stealth easymode even on the hardest difficulties of those "other" games).

well for a start I didn't say turn this into a TP game, I said an option would be good, as a fan of something I have the right to sound such request.

Also if you think Splinter Cell, Hitman, Metal Gear Solid are easy cause they are TPV, then yeah suit yourself, I am pretty sure other people also find FPV a diluted unimmerive experience, opinion, opinions

they said if you could use 3rd person it would cheapen the experience, like amnesia they want to draw you in so for the time you spend playing, you're temporarily in full belief 'YOU ARE CORVO' dum dum dum

First person view is better for the immersion and the devs have more experience with that. It will be First Person only, calling it now.

They said it would be 1st person only weeks ago

I feel the 3rd person camera is a lot easier on the player. You get to see around corners better and you don't easily get sick because of narrow FoV (which is becoming an issue on PC games because of lousy ports).
On the other hand, in my opinion, first person camera brings the most immersive experience out of any option.
I started playing Thief recently and I have never played it before. My first 'stealth' experiences were MGS and Splinter Cell. I was extremely surprised by how much Thief surpasses those games in terms of stealth purely because of First Person camera and options you (don't) get. You get to peek around corners by how much you want and you have to rely on sounds a lot more which heightens the tension unlike any other game I've ever played. Only game I could compare to playing Thief 1 & 2 that gives such an adrenaline rush would be ol' scary Silent Hill.

Sameer, I really recommend you give Thief 1 or 2 a try. You said graphics don't matter and if you crave for new stealth experience I think you will enjoy it. Perhaps you even change your views on TPV stealth as I did. It is available on GOG.com

well TBH I am yet to play Thief but I intend to do, especially with T4 coming around, yet being a very very very very strong fan of Splinter Cell I doubt any game would make me feel it's better than Splinter Cell Chaos Theory .

As I say regarding TPV & FPV with each comes different challenges, different style of gameplay, and different enemies reception.

As for FPV I can live with it, and enjoy it, but I really need a character with personality, most of FPS games I played the characters were without a personality which made me sick, and the game no matter how good it was fell flat to me, especially when they try for a great ending of you dieing or something, but I am not attached to the character I am playing, so to me it doesn't matter, that's why I enjoy games like Resistance series, or Deus Ex Human Revolution, and that's why FPV doesn't strike me that much at all, and I don't feel immersed in it whatsoever, personal opinion of course.

Thief 2 in particular is definitely better than any of the Splinter Cell games, if you ask me. The game is tuned within an inch of its life; it's like the CS 1.6 or the Quake 3 of stealth games. Just pure perfection.

Thief 1 is also amazing, but has several levels that are more about adventuring than Thieving, and Thief 3 has some major issues but I still like it.

You should definitely play those games.

totally well do.

Actually whenever I think about TPV, I think about console games, which have been ruining the good ol' PC gaming style for ages.
And yes, DE:HR was as much a betrayal (on that matter) to the first installment as Fallout New Vegas was to the "true" Fallout gameplay.

The Thief series is very nice, just like Dark Messiah was immensely enjoyable... oh wait, they are FPS (then again, New Vegas is the exception)

I love Zelda.

I'm trying no to ruin your expectations, but i remember one video where ralf was saying its going to be first person. anyway, I am a thief fan (hence my name ), and also a big AC fan (Cant wait for AC3!!). I'd say they both have their places.

I think what Arcance is trying to do is to put YOU into the game. Hence the running hands. what corvo is thinking and his opinion will be yours not his. Say maybe corvo comes off as a serious character compassionate person, but the player wants to role play a mass murderer and a jester at the same time (like the guy in skyrim's brotherhood faction) so that wont work. So, I think the idea is that, if you're happy, then corvo is happy. If you want revenge, then corvo will take revenge. If you're a monk, then corvo is a monk. Thats why its possible to win the game without ever killing anyone. So if corvo had a set of predetermined values to his character, then you're playing arcane's corvo, not yours.

I feel that arcane wants to give the player the freedom to do near anything they want, and be anyone they want. Of course, while still adding the story of corvo the assassin to it. But you're given his tools and you can come out with your style of play including emotions and beliefs and values. There is a video where Ralph was discussing ARX where he gave players the option to either kill a troll - who's celebrating his birthday at the time- in order to achieve an item, or to fufil the quest by giving the troll what he wanted then receive the item. In the end its up to the player what he wants to do and what his values are that determined whether he kills or not this nice troll.

So I think this is arkane's idea of immersion for a player where he can puts his own emotions, values and opinion in a situation, instead of being forced into a corner of what he should do, or what he's "supposed" to feel. Hence, the first person. Of course, also to do with getting the players vision to as close to humans vision as possible, so you feel like you're doing the killing etc. then also, im sure theres supprises and traps or scenes where they have implemented intended for first person experience which if you had third person vision, will work less effectively.

For AC, it was absolutely perfect for me to see ezio and altair in the third and i've played alot of the online. The story of AC is very specific as theres a lot going on with the persons life, his values and beliefs, social connections etc. Then also you're playing the assassins life - you're suppose to kill your targets, not to be killing anything that walks. so for ezio to emote was fully understandable as he has a lot to deal with. theres some minor flaws where you're able to massacre the guards of course.

The other thing is that theres still a ton of stealth playability with using third person view, just a matter of working with the environment, blending and understanding the other person's field of vision and playstyle. I've met a lot of good players and they knew how to poach. Also I've played metal gear and splinter cell, so stealth can work in third person.

as for the quiet character, again, i think its for emmersion as well, say if corvo was saying something nice to a AI at the time, the player may be wanting to kill him instead, so it wont work. For me, half life didnt bother me very much having a quiet character, but i do wish Gordon would say something. He's supposed to be an intellectual guy, it be great just to hear his opinions in different situations.


so there you go.

@http://www.gamesas.com/user/794327-garrettsoul/: I totally respect your point of view, but here is what I think

- I am not into the game if the character is silent, all you said was cool and great, but I hope that translate through the voice, not just the act, for example Deus Ex Human Revolution in the level where Sarif tells you to see some friends to get into the Police station, you get choices, it can be okay with you, or you can choose that this is wrong doing, and Jensen reflect your choices through his words, through his voice, that's why I like that kinda of RPG unlike other ones that don't have any reflection on the character, with FPV we need voice, otherwise my feelings as you describe them won't translate well into the character and the world.

- It's all cool about style of gameplay, tools, ............etc, still a plain character is a plain character, I don't feel attached or immersed in a game where the character doesn't have an opinion or a reply to what's going around him, or can't even reflect what I am experiencing through voice, it's just me but I hate that, if for example Corvo turns out to be silent during the whole game, with no character whatsoever, and in the end he dies or something, I won't feel like I am dieing, I will it is a disappointing end, and that it fell flat to me, on the other hand look at Deus Ex Human Revolution, the ending had 4 different ending, Jensen had a character, a one that is a better reflection to yours, and the ending choice was really yours, I tried the 4 of them, but left the one I think is right for last, cause I wanted my own ending to be the last thing, that's how good choice is done.

- As for the first vision, well running with hands in a game that has roofs to jump off, ledges to hand off, .......etc, I don't like it, and you won't you won't be able to see your feet in this game right ?!, that mean jumping just became problematic, There was this jump in Deus Ex HR where I always missed and died, cause I couldn't see when I should jump, since I couldn't see the characters feet, that's why TPV is actually alot better for these kinda of things, same goes for kills, I am more impressed when I see the whole body animation of my character doing the take down, as opposed to a hand doing it.

- As for AC here is a character Ezio where alot of people where really attached and cared about him, and stealth for a matter of facts work really well as TPV too.


Bottom line for FPV I gave up on it, I understand that this game will only support FPV, the new coverage made that clear enough, but on the other hand The Silent Character ?!, I am not giving up on that, cause that is actually a game breaker for me .

that's it

ahh nice, this takes away many fears I had.

Oh i see what you mean, yeah of course, if i were to get shot and not have a simple "aaaargh" then that will feel odd to me too. That was the case with Mr. gordon freeman. yeah i suppose it would be good to have character voice his opinions based on your actions. I think in bioshock infinate they've refined this. They have their protagonist say something the instant you do an action, have a look on the trailer and some of the interviews on their website. Also the NPCs are to say scripted events at the right moments and dependant on the players situation in that moment in time. So that they wont chirp "but then I took an arrow to the knee" every single time you come close. That really made the game immersive, i have to agree on that. To ask arkane to do something like that, i guess they really have to redesign or restructure their current game if they havent already.

Same

well I think at E3 we will know for sure, but I pray go GOD, that the character is a deep one

I think Harvey Smith gave a decent explanation of the importance of a first person perspective for immersion when he was asked if a first person perspective was even necessary for immersion.

"It might sound obvious now, but my eyes were first opened up to immersion not as a graphical or camera thing but as a design thing by Rob Fermier of Looking Glass, in a GDC talk. Before that, I guess I understood it intuitively, as a fan of the Ultimas. But Fermier articulately broke down immersion into three components: completeness (the player can do what he expects to be able to do), integrity (the illusion is never broken, the player is not jarred out of the game) and investment (the player cares about what happens).

I think first-person-perspective games with realistic spatial representations take this a step further, adding a familiar visual component; players immersed in first-person perspective games often physically dodge projectiles or lean in their seats when attempting to see around the corner.

So first-person is just a preference. Games of the same style as STALKER, Bioshock or Far Cry 2 are more…I love them as much as or maybe more than the best pop music in my life or favorite novels."