Its all about balance folks. Warriors and Thieves have to max several skills in order to be effective at what they do and Mages have to as well. As a mage, you can't just expect to max destruction magic by itself and dominate.

Warrior classes have to max 1h or 2h weapons plus an armor skill plus smithing and archery or block to be effective.

Rogue classes have to max sneak and 1h/archery plus light armor skill and possibly speech or alchemy/lockpicking to be effective.

Likewise, Mages are required to max out Destruction, Conjuration, Illusion and either Alteration or Restoration.

Fair is fair, you can't expect to jump into the game and max a single skill and kick all available ass. You need to use all the skills you have available if you want to be successful.

Thx. I started a mage yesterday and I have to say dual casting is very fun. At the same time however with low armor I had to kite often. If using robes don't give a significant advantage in mana regen over wearing normal armor ... why wear them. Normal armor enchanted by reducing mana cost enchants = win. As for using all schools of magic ... no thank you I will beat the game with destro and resto and armor and shield blocking.

I totally agree, but tell me how that logic extends to Magicka regeneration being significantly reduced in combat?

Why would that happen?

For thieves and warriors, there is no equivalent limiting factor which governs how effective you can be. Stamina doesn't even go down when you attack normally, and it's regeneration rate is the same in combat as it is out of combat.

At higher levels there should be more focus on using different kinds of magic to get the desired result - fine, I completely agree with this. But given that there are limited perks, some of the schools of magic are VERY expensive.

This means that if (in my case) you've specialised in Alteration, Destruction, Enchanting, Restoration and to a lesser extent one handed (only one perks thus far, I can't really justify more on reflection), it's not really practical to apply any perks to Conjuration or Illusion, which are certainly needed in conjunction with your specialised skills.

When you cast powerful versions of those spells without perks, you have to wait for ages for the bar to go back up because regeneration is much slower in combat, making those spells considerably less effective.

I totally appreciate that the game is about specialisation, but I just can't figure why they've done this. Why would regeneration be quicker out of combat than it would in it. Or if Beth have chosen to do that, why not do the same with Stamina?

You're not getting the point. Most people aren't complaining that it's hard, they're pointing out a design flaw. See below.

You're also not understanding the issue.

Hypothetical example: Let's say you want to make a warrior for an RPG. Your weapon skill choices are Blunt, Long Blade, and Short Blade. The game scales damage for Blunt, but not for Long Blade or Short Blade. Long Blade & Short Blade look pretty pointless once you figure that out.

The whole point is not that it's impossible to play a mage, it's that a mage is constrained in ways that a warrior or thief isn't. Mages have less play-style options. Mages are narrowly constrained in viable strategy. Knowing the problem with Destruction, it makes more sense to do Conjuration + 1H/2H/Archery. But, why should a mage have to depend on Conjuration? No single school should be an absolute game requirement. And weapons shouldn't be a requirement for mages, etiher. But the fact that destruction is gimped means that all mages have to either learn weapons, or conjuration, or both.

My guess would be that magicka regeneration is slower in combat for the same reason that health regeneration is slower when you're not sleeping.

With respect I don't feel that's right or fair. I don't follow the logic at all.

- One of those happens to all characters, and is a basic make up of the game
- The other only impacts mages and magic users

Why wouldn't there be an equivalent cost to stamina - that's my issue here. Where's the downside for other classes?

No I understand the problem. But right now for me the important piece of info is that magic regen is not so hot and that I can drop the 0 armor robe for something more sturdy. As for the damage I will figure something out.

so much clueless people who say they know what they talk about ....

First all the mana regenn is useless IT DOESNT work in combat , when its over voila you has full mana in seconds , but during combat it doesnt reg.

Aoe spells and companions is worst combo EVER you will kill them once every 2 spells they just go in IT and die .
Mana cost is not the problem we can make spells cost little , but it still doesnt fix the problem ! [censored] sake get to labirintium put easiest difficulty , get a companion a conj spell and try kill that guy without exit the room , and exploit line of sight by going BACK fight him in the room kite etc , takes ages ! you need like 20 spells double charged to kill , he needs 2 spells to kill you . Companion and atronach useless he or his one will kill them in 1 shoot

Well, I can't speak for every mage out there but here's how I see it. As a mage, you have to have the initiative in combat, which means you want to have distance and you need to scout a bit and understand the AI, what they are equipped with and you need to have a plan B (escape method) planned before every attack you make. But you also need to bring the full tool chest with you, like a playbook that a football quarterback uses to disect the defense. Know your enemy. Mages aren't supposed to rush into situations, thats what barbarians do.

Let me break this down for you simply, you have to be good at managing your mana. You need to play conservatively as a mage and strategize more and make better use of sneak and alchemy (both for poisons and buffs). My mage is level 54 and he only has 37 archery skill but my alchemy is maxed and the poisons I throw out on my arrows are volatile, I almost don't need to cast anything when im done landing some of these poisons. So, Alchemy is very important.

Plus, Alchemy gives you bonuses to your destruction damage. So, two things that every mage should have would be a bow and a decent sneak skill. You can use illusion for crowd control and summoned monsters to clean up the mess, any leftovers you csn use destruction magic on.

I agree. Test it when you get a chance. There are loads of people saying the same thing. It might just be a frequently occurring bug, but it's definitely happening on mine.

What I don't know for sure is whether with the enchantments it's quicker than it would have otherwise been - I'll test it tonight. But either way the regeneration rate is significantly reduced.

I've used a shed load of my perks so I'll soldier on, but if I could start again I'd do it differently.

Magicka regens fast when not in battle, slower when in battle.
Health regens slow when not in battle, not at all when in battle.

Makes sense to me.

Edit:
And it has been shown in mulitple threads that regen IS faster with +regen equipment, both when in battle and when not in battle. You are welcome to check it for yourself too if you want to ofc, but in essence "macicka regens fast when not in battel (and even faster with +regen), slower when in battle (but less slow with +regen).

+100% to a slow regen is still +100%. Lets make a couple number up to examplify.

NOT IN BATTLE:
Magicka regens 10/second. +100% regen equipment gives you 20/second.
IN BATTLE:
Magick regens 5/second. +100% regen equipment gives you 10/second.

(took numbers out of thin air)

It's not that I necessarily disagree with what you're writing, I think we play in similar styles in a lot of respects. I've been playing these for years and I really like the strategic aspect.

Like I say, I guess my gripe is that there's no equivalent penalty for other classes, which makes me think it's a bug. Ultimately being able to summon a permanent atronach is a big bonus and means managing magicka is easier, but they're not exactly discrete!

Don't misunderstand me, I love this game, but I think the regeneration issue is a bug as I don't think the enchants work

I get what you're saying, I really do, butI don't agree with your example of why it's fair.

Does the same thing happen to stamina? The health regen applies to everyone - fine, balanced. Magic regen only applied to magic users. Where's the equivalent cost for other types of players? Almost all of my perked skills requires the use of a magic.

Furthermore, I'm not sure (I need to check) that your IN BATTLE vs. NOT IN BATTLE example is correct. i.e. I think it might be a bug where the enchants just aren't working

I just tested it. In combat regen is 33% of out of combat regen. In combat my mana bar replenished in 60 seconds, out of combat in 20 seconds. That is with 50% regen cloak.

Whoops - this went way past 200.

I am very disappointed with the calibre of some of the posts in this thread, though. Are you really so incapable of discussing mages in a video game without insulting each other?