Melee has to be exploited to get the insane damage from enchants/potions. Take that out of the picture and without power attacks the hits aren't what people seem to think they are in these forums. Besides it's not like this is a multiplayer game, there will always be weak builds, exploits and op builds. Question is does magic work to beat the game with?

From wikipedia:
"In mathematics, a rate is a ratio between two measurements, often with different units.[1] If the unit or quantity in respect of which something is changing is not specified, usually the rate is per unit time. However, a rate of change can be specified per unit time, or per unit of length or mass or another quantity. The most common type of rate is "per unit time", such as speed, heart rate and flux. Rates that have a non-time denominator include exchange rates, literacy rates and electric flux."

Sorry gary, once again you are wrong.

All a mage can do is cast a wet noodle spell more. The "rate" is still the same. They do not come faster or do more damage each time. Once you are at 100 destruction that is it.

Melee can still increase their damage tremendously once they are at 100 in their respective tree. They can enchant and smith it into ridiculous amounts.

The point of this thread and the many others is that destruction svcks as a damage tree, and ALL of the numbers show this fact.

I wasn't arguing that melee wasn't broken, but rather that things like broken enchanting/alchemy systems shouldn't be taken into account.

Regardless, warriors enchanting up their gear and maxing out smithing will still bring in single attacks doing 150-160 damage, which I still think is fairly ridiculous compared to destruction.


Btw, the main argument here is not that mages are completely unplayable. It's rather that, the destruction school which many, many people favor, is not nearly as effective as it should be past level 40 or so.

Honestly? I hope they get the CK out soon so I or someone else can just fix it.

I read this post carefully and tried to find something that challenges or contradicts what I said. I didn't find anything...

I repeat: the original point you made -- the one I disputed, and which was obviously false -- is different from the point you're making now, which I agree with.

Well you seem to ignore posts that do challenge your statements. I'll try once again...

You're suggesting that leveling up and unlocking new spells; along with the incredibly useless reduced magica cost is a viable form of damage scaling? Wrong.

The problem is that once you've unlocked the highest destruction spells (which can be obtained around half the max level) they never get any better. So if learn the master spells at level 40, their damage remains the same for the rest of the game, while enemies continue to get stronger. However, one hand will continue to strengthen all the way to level 70 or whatever you cap out at.

The magica reduction is useless. So I can cast more spells; too bad I'll be dead before I can fire off more then one.

This isn't related to Skyrim, but since you brought up LoL, I have to say your point is horrible.

Ryze is the tankiest mage in the game. The way he gets more damage is he builds mana items, which also have heavy tank stats. To say Ryze dies instantly tells me you either haven't touched the game in a year since the patch changed him, or you are a terrible player that builds him AP.

Anyway, that completely ruins your example that mages are underpowered. Your other points have more or less validity to them.

Well you seem to ignore posts that do challenge your statements. I'll try once again...

You're suggesting that leveling up and unlocking new spells; along with the incredibly useless reduced magica cost is a viable form of damage scaling? Wrong.

The problem is that once you've unlocked the highest destruction spells (which can be obtained around half the max level) they never get any better. So if learn the master spells at level 40, their damage remains the same for the rest of the game, while enemies continue to get stronger. However, one hand will continue to strengthen all the way to level 70 or whatever you cap out at.

The magica reduction is useless. So I can cast more spells; too bad I'll be dead before I can fire off more then one.

I think, one of the solution would have been to be able to upgrade the flame/fireball/ice etc spell (projectile and the touch), just like the "armsman" have 5 levels doing more damage with the swords, except giving more levels to upgrade. Do the same with the rest of the magic stuff. I can also think of "enchanting" the spell to be more powerful, similar way like enchanting or refining a sword at the smith.

This post is in good faith that people will maybe read before posting that "Magic/Destruction/Mages are fine, L2P" thread.

Damage increasing stuff:

1) 1h/2h/bow get improved damage as your skill goes up. At 100 1h skill, any given weapon does more damage than at 20 skill. Not a single magic school gets more damage as skill goes up.
2) 1h/2h/bow have +100% damage perks (in general) as well as other damage enhancing perks (bow +crit chance, for example). Magic has +50%, nothing else.
3) You can Smith to increase damage for 1h/2h/bow. You cannot up magic damage with Smithing.
4) You can Enchant with + damage to 1h/2h/bow (+25% at least per piece if you can find/make them). You cannot increase any magic damage with any enchantments, ever.

Magic works amazingly well from level 1-35ish. Level 35+ it starts falling fast, since there is no way to increase the damage after that, period. No new spells, no enchants, smithing, or perks.

The problems would probably be completely mitigated if magic damage scaled with skill in that magic line. Mods will probably fix it in time. Be patient.

Right. Because challenge should happen at the high/top levels where you are supposed to be stronger than before.

/facepalm

Isnt that usually the way progression works? You start off on easy tutorial mode and work you way up fighting more difficult opponents?

Or are you implying there should be no challenge? /facepalm

More difficult because your damage drops off and theirs doesnt?

Summon pets so i can watch them do what I should be able to do by myself.

Yeah thats enjoyable.

Last time I played chess I realized that pawns aren't nearly as powerful as I wanted them to be. To do what I needed to do to win... I had to use a different piece! Gosh that is so imbalanced. I want to play chess with a pure pawn strategy. I think pawns should be more powerful.

Look, I'm all for requesting new features and if you would like some new spells or something that's really great. I support it. But acting like this is some huge flaw with the game is wrong. Nobody ever said that any conceivable build was going to have an equal chance of killing enemies as all the others. How boring would that be?

Pure destruction mages plateau. Now that you know that, plan your strategy accordingly.

Oh so mages are pawns and warriors are Queens?

Nice logic there guy.

Take your difficulty off novice and get back to us.

so this thread says that magic trades loses its late game usefulness but gets early game domination? im ok with this.

honestly, i cant wait for magic to stop being so overpowered. im lvl 23 conjure mage (conjuring/destro are somewhere in the 70's) right now. i summon a frost atronach and watch it completely demolish everything. anything it doesnt kill, lydia kills for me. if its a serious fight, i'll break out the staff of fireballs + staff of jyrik gauldurson. anything anti-mage completely gets dual bound swords to the face. o and if anything gets near me, become ethereal...

im almost afraid to get the storm atronach spell and the perk to increase atronach dmg by 50%. i want to actually do something in dungeons instead of just casting my atronach and watching it kill things till the final dungeon boss where i might have to drain mana with lightning bolt or something.

i agree that destro is the weakest of the combat schools but im definitely looking forward to conjuring becoming less overpowered.

i agree that destro is the weakest of the combat schools but im definitely looking forward to conjuring becoming less overpowered.

Why is that so bad? Games have rules and limitations, that's what makes them games. If you artificially restrict yourself to destruction only and don't use the other tools that are available to you, then expect to have to deal with the hardships that come with that.

It's just like any number of examples of self-restriction:
If use a wood axe instead of a sword, I'm going to have a hard time. I don't have to do that, but I sure could.
If I decide to use only bows and no melee weapon, then I'm going to have some hardships when an enemy closes in. I don't have to, but I could.

Likewise, deciding to stick only with destruction when there are other things available to do damage is just as silly as trying to use only pawns to win at chess.

Last time I played chess I realized that pawns aren't nearly as powerful as I wanted them to be. To do what I needed to do to win... I had to use a different piece! Gosh that is so imbalanced. I want to play chess with a pure pawn strategy. I think pawns should be more powerful.