Whatever threats the collaborative group decides to invent.

In a way, technically, you are not joining a faction in the sense of joining the Stormcloaks or the Legion. The Mountain Fortress where the collective of NPCs who care more about Skyrim than the politics that drive other organizations, would be sort of a centerpoint for whatever activities would fit a politically neutral collective.

What if there is a bandit chief who decides he wants more than leading a gang of bandits and has his interests in taking advantage of the Legion focused so much on the Stormcloaks. With the Empire's strong-arms engaged in other matters this wannabe warlord bandit chief could start terorizing people. The Collective (which I am calling the organization for want of a better name) would make it their business to deal with this growing threat. Both the Empire and the Jarls would consider the elimination of any bandit ring to be a good thing, so neither would get in the way.

What if some well-off merchant is secretly a collaborator with the Thalmor putting the well-being of Skyrim's people at risk. A Collective assassin would be a good way to solve the problem.

Technically, the Collective could be scattered all over Skyrim. But in times of need, key members would meet somewhere. The Mountain Fortress is the answer to the question of where that would be. It could not be left unoccupied. If it was, it could be found by unsavory sorts and used against the people of Skyrim, so a permanant presence is maintained. But now with the Dragons returning and war on everyone's doorstep, the need to be organized and prepared is great. So members of the leadership of the Collective are there.

I thought to include a fortress because people like new places to go that are tied to content, and it is a plus if you get to call part of it home... And creating some regular characters who are re-usable as questgivers and giving them a home there makes sense. The Legion has Solitude. The Stormcloaks have Windhelm. So the neutral non-faction has this cool fortress.

The backstory of the fortress could be something like hundreds of years ago it was the home of a powerful gang of outlaws. The first Collective members banded together to do something about them by striking at their source. Using magic and stealth as well as brute force, the Fortress was overrun and the outlaws there destroyed. It was the first and last time that the Collective allowed their enemies to get away with a raid unchallenged, but when the outlaws returned home with their spoils, they were welcomed by the collective, slaughtered and their spoils returned to where they were taken from. The mayor of the town that was raided was one of the Collective's founders.

Of course, details could do with some fleshing out, but I just came up with that on the fly.

No there are a lot of threats:

Vampires, Bandits, Undead, Thalmor, Dragons... All perfectly valid for the purposes of the Collective...

That's a good point. It seems to me that our ideas so far are not incompatible, but are answering slightly different questions.

Where will the player be based? Mountain fortress
Where will the player explore, what search for? Knowledge, and artefacts, in Dwemer halls.
What will the player achieve? Musically themed shouts.

if you need help with art direction, visual design/continuity i can help. i have a background in design. i think what a larger scaled project needs is some type of uniformity and visual continuity, unless the point is to have a quilt-work of different modders' spaces (which in itself would be kind of cool too, there was another community project suggested by tambo that is like that)

And a question of why they will seek these achievements? For new ways to protect and serve the people of Skyrim

I'd like to think of the Collective as sort of like a neighborhood watch. But they sort of consider all of Skyrim as their neighborhood. What threatend one part of it could threaten other parts as well. As an organization it is loose enough that the player will feel free to do or not do anything associated with it as they see fit. It interferes with nothing from the core game and offers an avenue by which a steady flow of content can be introduced...

I am warming to this collective idea. It would allow us to make as many or as few NPCs as we'd like to give quests and join as companions, allows us flexibility in storytelling, and we can have multiple simultaneous storylines. Sort of a Guild to end all Guilds.

The only problem I have is with the name Collective. I'd rather do something friendlier to the lore. For example, you could start the first new generation of the Blades, who basically do what you are saying the Collective would do. There could be recruiting missions, threat missions, exploring missions, etc.
For the Emperor!

As the player accomplishes quests new features can be added to the Guild hall. For example, I'm working on something that will allow the player to build their own Dwemer machines (been done, I know, but this will only be a small part of what I do) that could eventually find its way into the Guild Hall. Other features might be: A fletching station, a Forge that allows for unique weapon enhancements, a library of unique spells, etc.

I think it would be a Dream Come True if Amethyst Deceiver designed the Guild Hall personally. I love your work and think you would be excellent at it.

i would definitely be interested in designing a guild hall. i could cut a pretty mean set of armor for the guild as well if needed.

i have worked in team group prects in the past (not even mods, in real life jobs, creative projects) and i have seen great projects fall to dust at the hands of the "too many chefs" rule. i for one am stepping out of the kitchen on this one and am totally ok with having a set few people in charge of putting together the collective vision for what the project should entail. in order for a collective project to succeed i strongly agree with the idea that everyone needs to be on the same page.

I think we'll get in less vitriolic arguments than people are seeming to indicate, especially if we do this Collective idea. It basically is just an all purpose guild that can act as sort of a canvas for everyone's ideas.

Okay, I think we've come to a point in this decision making process where we have to decide on an idea. I like the Collective idea, a Guild whose general purpose is the protection of Skyrim and the Empire at large's peoples. They will respond to different threats in different ways, allowing people to basically do any kind of mission they want. Oh, and a sweet guild hall with fun features. That has my vote. Would anyone be violently opposed to this idea that actually has strong plans to contribute?

It can be called whatever we want it to be called. Like I said, I was using "The Collective" for want of a better name.

But you have the general idea of what the concept is aiming for.

Yeah, I can see the Name being a point of contention. The reason I chose the Blades was because its something I think anyone can get behind, as it is a long-standing part of the Lore.

a Blades overhaul (or a guild similar to... "collectives", or whatever you want to call it) would be a super awesome mod IMO, and one i would love to work on

I'm really not at all fond of this idea, as I voiced upthread; I don't personally like the concept, and I'm not sure it's a good subject for a collaborative work, but I'd still be willing to help even if it went forward.

The only hangup I actually have with actually using "The Blades" is the possibility that in a future DLC, Bethesda will carry on their story, but will take it in a direction contrary to where we take it. I remember how upset members of the Morrowind modding community were, after creating all those Werewolf mods, when Bethesda announced Bloodmoon. You would think someone slapped them in the face and called their mamma ugly... The more original we are, the less likely we will tread on BGS's toes and the less likely our toes will be treadded on by them, no matter what they end up doing.

A name just popped into my head... How does "The Frostwatch" sound?

I just now read your response. Not sure how I overlooked it.

I do agree that the whole neutral storyline thing really isn't so great. But an organization that stands apart from all other organizations and yet welcomes any and all talents and abilities that can help further its goals does make for good collaborative effort, even allowing for diverse plotlines.

I hate to be a negative nancy, but I don't like that name, either.

Again, not a dealbreaker, I'll still help out - but I much prefer the Dwemer expansion idea. It allows for more decentralization since this is a community modding project and not a mod development team.

I'm still working on Dwemer stuff for this. We could have an entire Dwemer story arch that the Guild gets involved with. For example, I just got done making a centurion forge I think you'll like that could be part of the guild hall. I would really like to work on the Dwemer storyline with you, and we can make that one big branch of quests for the guild. Here's the link to my forge:
http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/19579

It's less the matter of personal distaste or favor for Dwemer stuff, and more my unease with the prospect of trying to collaboratively create a community project with a principal storyline.

I think a ground rule should be that there is no MAIN storyline for the guild. Everyone would want their pet project to be the main storyline, and that would induce a lot of squabbling. There should just be a bunch of storylines, each of which can be done or not done independently, and no quests from one storyline are required for another. That way we don't step on one another's toes.

Name suggestion: the Moot. It's a meeting place, and it's a moot point what it does


Agreed on the decentralization of storylines (although I think that links to each other's quests/NPCs that people chose to build in would be good, not bad).

It seems to me that the Collective idea basically boils down to having a mountain city, with all sorts of NPCs in it, and their associated quests, and the equivalent of Thane status as a reward. So all sorts of quests would be possible. But are there any limits on what they could be? Would fighting on either side of the Civil war result in expulsion, for example?

Works for me. Though I've been throwing names out there, it doesn't matter what it ends up being called. Perhaps it can have multiple names and which one gets mentioned depends on who you ask

For all I care, it could be the "lollypop guild". Well... okay... I would care if that was used, but I'm just saying. As long as the name sounds like it could fit within the context of Skyrim and The Elder Scrolls, It's all good.


When writing dialogue for the questgivers, if the quest authors know what other quest authors are doing, they can make their NPCs talk about that other NPCs are having people do.

"Take Joram in the east wing. He thinks the answer is in resotoration knowledge. I say Destruction is the way to go. You won't have to heal injured allies if you kill the enemy before they can injure anyone. When you see him, you tell him I said so! Now go fetch that scroll from that tomb and stop talking to me!"

That bit of dialogue right there makes the place seem more alive because an NPC is referencing another by name and even telling you where he can be found, establishes a difference of philosophical opinion, and even goes so far as to tell you to go talk to him. Both could be characters created by different authors, but because the authors know what they are both doing, they can have their characters play off each other...


Technically, you don't really formally join the collective (or whatever it will actually be called). If you are there you are there to help forward the cause of gaining knowledge and strength in the name of helping the people of Skyrim.

Not everyone who is involved there has the same idea of how such knowledge and strength should be applied. The player is a free agent able to decide which quests to undertake. What the player does on the outside is his/her own business. So taking a side in the civil war will not get you kicked out. But the NPCs gathered there are not interested in politics. Their attitude is that while the Empire and Stormcloaks are at each others' throats, the people are in danger and someone needs to do whatever it takes to keep them safe. So the Collective, or the Moot, or whatever, is there for any and all to bring their skills to the table and figure out where best to use them for the greater good...

At least that's my idea of what brings all these diffetrent NPCs together in one place. Strength and Wisdom through Diversity... Open to all races and all professions. And if you are an Imperial Loyalist or a Stormcloak Rebel? Just leave the war outside.