[Sun of Sammy]

Well, tell you what, I'll throw in for this, tentatively. I start Law School in a month and a half, so I'm not sure about my free time after that, but until then, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suRsxpoAc5w.

I'll add that I'm a bit more interested in Bards than Dwemer, but Dwemer's fine with me.

[xx_Jess_xx]

Yeah, Bards would be interesting, but I personally don't know what lore we can really draw from. I did have an idea for it though, where you could have shouts that grant status effects to you, like increased movement speed, attack speed, what have you.

So so far the things that people seem to be interested in are the Dwemer and Bard's college? Anyone else have a cool idea?

[Marnesia Steele]

Musically Themed Shouts.

You know you want it.

[Cash n Class]

I so do

[Jessica Colville]

Why? What would you be doing with your world that would be accomplishable, interesting, and immersing?
That just seems like the lofty huge sort of goal that gets early starting groups into trouble.

I dont know about the accomplishable and interesting, but I'd sure love a really huge worldspace to explore.
Even with the same amount of content as Skyrim (if not less), so much to explore would make me love it.

Plus, with such an extension, adding few dungeons and villages every time you build a quest would be fun. No need to flood it with content since the very beginning and no risk to step over each other's feet.


Edit: I'd love a better mage guild quest-line. Actually, is there any guild that doesnt need a better quest-line, here? =\

[Jade]

Zehyro, I just feel like something that huge would require us to fill it in order for it to be interesting, and in order to fill it we'd have a project on our hands the size of MERP, which would be a logistical nightmare for reasons people have stated above. Velicky has been working since the beginning to create something like that, and I don't think even he's doing something 16x16.
If you'd like to build a huge world, by all means go for it, and then try to get people involved to fill it with quests, but I don't think a small community driven project like we're proposing here matches it.

As for your idea for guilds, I think you're 100% right. None of the guilds stacked up with Morrowind guilds in the least. I think the easiest way to implement this idea would be to have a questline for the three major guilds that take place after you are the leader or the guild, something where you really represent the guild in crisis situations and act as a leader. That would be cool. I wouldn't want to change the vanilla storylines as is though, that could get real messy real fast. The rewards could also be awesome toys in theme for the guild (The Grey Fox mask, Secrets of the Skyforge that allow for various properties to be added to weapons to make them coooler (think Trollbane, increased critical chance, increased crit damage, increased weapon speed, increased stagger chance) and maybe for mages the ability to create staves).

So ideas are Dwemer, Bards, increased storylines for guilds. I'll wait for one more decent idea I think before I make a poll thread to see what people are not interested in (whichever gets the least votes for something hated will be the project, as we need to know which projects people will walk away from more than we need to know which are people's favorites).

[Lucky Boy]

I have been pondering about a "Thieves Guild: Continued" mod for a little while, I've already got a few ideas starting to take shape. Glad to hear this will be a choice (albeit as part of a wider category), so that's where my vote will be going

- Hypno

[J.P loves]

Good to know. I could easily make a College of Winterhold quest where you explore the secrets of the Dwemer, then I wouldn't have to cplain that I couldn't do all my rad Dwemer ideas. If someone else had an idea for the College, we could just do both as more things to do when you're Archmage.

I think giving end-level content for high level characters who have already accomplished the quests is our best idea at this point personally. It gives people a reason to play the game again, as this time when they master a guild, they actually get awesome new epic level quests to do. And the quests have unique interesting rewards that are new features of gameplay rather than just a mediocre robe and whatever unmemorable thing you get from the Companions (Was it really just Wuuthraad? Can that be right?)

It also means we can do a lot of things and not worry about how to start the storyline so much, or stepping on one another's toes. Basically strangers could come to the College needing arcane guidance, Companions requiring help, or Thieves Guild with contracts, and as Guild Leader you make decisions on what sort of quests you want to do and who to take with you. As we make more missions, they can simply be installed as new mission packs. In this way we could make modular content that ties together without having to actually tie it together. Skyrim has already basically done the work for us by providing the responsibilities of a Guild Leader.
I think one thing we could totally do that would be super awesome once we get the ball rolling would be quests where UFO is required and we have a guy that will only take you to the final mission ground if you have every living member of your guild with you and no one else. Basically, your College vs. Big Baddy Boss Man. Since you can equip and train all your companions, you may have to train the Guild members and get them new equipment and spells to beat the boss. I'm talking True WoW style Bosses with tons of Horrifying Spells and Crazy Abilities and Spawning Minions and All Other Manner of Crazy Nonsense.

Most Epic.

Thieve's Guild could be a crazy heist with tons of stages. Like, maybe you have to disguise as a waiter and explore a party for possible security weaknesses, and then if you manage to find one of the weaknesses without being noticed wandering away from the party, you can then come back for the Heist. Something with finesse.

You could get a quest to become the Alpha Werewolf from Hircine himself, which would give you an incredible set of re-textured Wolf Armor with awesome enchants.

Just some ideas. I'd be most interested in the College personally. I love me some Mages.

[Lucky Girl]

I think giving end-level content for high level characters who have already accomplished the quests is our best idea at this point personally. It gives people a reason to play the game again, as this time when they master a guild, they actually get awesome new epic level quests to do

On the other hand:

1. This requires people to play through the vanilla quests before using our mod. Vanilla quests that we seem to agree are crappy.

2. It means that people who don't want to do the unpleasant vanilla Thieves and DB questlines will never play our mod either. (And some aren't keen on the Companions either.)

3. I also think that we'd be spreading ourselves too thinly if we added things to all of the Big Four guilds (even more, if you'd allow the Bards in as well). We'd probably end up creating simple fetch-the-awesome-thing quests rather than more involved stories. So if we went this route I'd at least suggest we started with one guild. If point 2 matters to anyone else as much as it does to me that would point to the Mages guild. Or, um, Bards

[Nadia Nad]

I definitely think we should do the guilds one at a time to maintain our focus. Two at most, but I think we should eventually get around to all of them.
While I can see your point as far as making them play through the vanilla story, it is just such a crying shame that becoming Guild leader doesn't effect things more, and i would like to address that.

2. Why would they have to do the Thieves Guild and DB? They could just do whatever guild they wanted, and there would be quests for them at the end. That's why I think we should eventually do all of them. So that any type of character can enjoy the mod. But definitely focus on one first. Then if more people join and they want to do other guilds, more power to them. Maybe we just stick with the Mages and Bard's college. That would be fine too.

[Dean]

I definitely think we should do the guilds one at a time to maintain our focus.

Cool.

2. Why would they have to do the Thieves Guild and DB? They could just do whatever guild they wanted, and there would be quests for them at the end.

Um, yes, OK, but that counts as people not doing some of our mod, not because they don't like our mod, but because they don't like something else. I think we should avoid prerequisites, if we can.

[cutiecute]

I'm gunna have to build a character quickly and play through the college quest line. I did the other three with my last character, but then the ck came out...I think I've barely touched the game since

Expanding the mages guild seems like it'll be quite fun as a starter project. Not only do we get to make a fun questline, but we can also give one of the resident scriptmaster's the artistic license to come up with some epic spells, fit for an archmage.

- Hypno

[Sarah Bishop]

On further thought, as much as I like the Bards' College personally, I think avoiding all of the guilds may be the best way to go for a group project. All of them have something problematic; some people don't like being Dovahbard, some people don't understand why their warrior brute should be an Archmage, some people hate selling their soul (figuratively), some people hate selling their soul (near literally), etc.

By contrast, the Dwemer are generally thought of as an interesting subject, even if not the MOST interesting subject.

[Leonie Connor]

On further thought, as much as I like the Bards' College personally, I think avoiding all of the guilds may be the best way to go for a group project.

Yes. Because of the voices it's difficult to add dialogue to vanilla NPCs, even without the current bug, and if one sets a mod in an area with them around, their silence or ignorance of what is going on is obtrusively obvious.

(Although when I suggested doing something with bards I didn't mean adding stuff to the Bard's Guild, but outside it, with strolling players, which I think could cater for every play style.)

[Danger Mouse]

I personally think it would be the best to at least add completely new areas/towns and characters. I don't see a reason not joining the mod with the existing guilds, but I'm pretty sure players are getting sick and tired of running around in the College of Winterhold and talking to the same characters, for example.

Not related to anything, but in my opinion there are way too many Dwemer dungeons in the game already. Maybe it's because the kits are so boring...

[DAVId MArtInez]

When I was talking about expanding the guild questlines, I most certainly did NOT mean in any way adding new dialogue to or editing the vanilla NPCs. Likely we would be adding new members or outside NPCs to give the plot hooks, so as not to cause compatibility issues, especially between our own modules.

I can see what you mean AstralFire about wanting to avoid the guilds simply because people are tired of doing them. That makes a lot fo sense actually. So, it seem like people are leaning towards the Dwemer, is that right?
Sierain, as far as the Dwemer go we could be taking existing dungeons and spicing them up to make some of the worthless boring dungeons into really interesting experiences. So, there wouldn't necessarily be more worthless dwemer ruins as there would simply be more interesting ruins. We can also intersperse natural cave systems with dwemer kit to make it seem more like an excavation.

[Madeleine Rose Walsh]

What about adding an organization that offers a start to finish NEUTRAL alternative to the core gameplay. Take the events that unfold on both the Imperial and Stormcloak side of things into account and come up with a logical sequence of events that might unfold for a group that is not all together on either side. This organization would have warriors, mages, thieves, assassins, bards and whatever else you can imagine working within it. Build the organization's fortress inside a mountain, with a cave being the entrance to a mine which is sort of a front to the organization. The secret entrance is in the mine... somewhere...

Put the questgiver that introduces the player to the organization in Riverwood. So just as the options to join the Legion or the stormcloaks comes early, so to would be the option to join this organization. This neutral faction is not about political maneuvering, but rather, the survival of ALL of Skyrim's people, regardless of politics, durring this time of crisis. If a player is already a member of the Legion or Stormcloaks, they won't be turned away, but it will be made clear that the politics of the civil war will have to be left outside. It is not the organizations intent to undermine the efforts of the legion or the stormcloaks. But rather to deal with any and all threats to the people. The stormcloaks and the empire are at each others' throats and too busy with the war effort to care about what is happening to those who are just trying to survive.

By going this route, we won't have to alter the vanilla game beyond overriding the Legion/Stormcloak faction joining aspect. The main quest and profession side quests would remain completely intact if the player so chooses to undertake them as well. We could pretty much write anything we want.

As for player housing, we can add a section of the mountain fortress to act as the player's rooms, offering the same sort of functionality that is seen in all the other housing examples. The player will not ascend to leadership of this organization. But he would become a member of highest standing, above other members but under the leadership. This allows an entire series of mods to be written for the organization.

The mountain fortress, the NPCs who call it home, etc would be an ESM to provide the necessary hooks for a series of ESPs. In fact, the actual door linking to the interior of the fortress would be the extend of one tiny .esp that will come with it. The reason for this is in case a future DLC from Bethesda adds something where we originally place the door, all we need to do is relocate the door and its associated marker.

Whatever we do, it should be something the player can immediately get into from the start of the game or join at any time.

Thoughts?

[Etta Hargrave]

And so the difference of opinions begins...

[Esther Fernandez]

Whatever we do, it should be something the player can immediately get into from the start of the game or join at any time.

Thoughts?

I agree with that point, and I like the mountain door solution to player housing. What I'm not quite seeing is how this organization would differ from that large part of Skyrim that ignores the war completely already. What threat(s) would it be defending Skyrim against?

[Amy Gibson]

And so the difference of opinions begins...

If we didn't differ, there'd be less benefit in collaborating

[OnlyDumazzapplyhere]

I feel like advancing an involved neutral storyline is a project better suited to a directed mod team rather than a general effort.

[Killah Bee]

And so the difference of opinions begins...

I was thinking the same thing.

Good thing I dipped out cus already I don't agree with the subject.

[danni Marchant]

You know, I understand - and even have voiced - my belief that this may be a long shot. It doesn't need to be continually reiterated, I'm sure those of us involved are aware of this fact.

[suniti]

This is true. I shall take my leave.

Best of luck. If this is completed it will be really cool.

[mike]

Very specific... but I like this:

By going this route, we won't have to alter the vanilla game beyond overriding the Legion/Stormcloak faction joining aspect. The main quest and profession side quests would remain completely intact if the player so chooses to undertake them as well. We could pretty much write anything we want.

Whatever we do, it should be something the player can immediately get into from the start of the game or join at any time.

Thoughts?

I don't think that there have been any bad ideas yet. Some compromises need to be made, but I'm not seeing any kind of fight over opinions here. Then again, I'm not that familiar with the lore, nor am I good at storytelling or quests so I'd probably agree with pretty much anything that isn't totally off-tracks or interfering with the vanilla game too much.