Skyrim's dual wield weapons system seriously needs to be fix : V - Skyrim

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:38 pm

Not being able to block is a trade off for being able to achieve Master Shredder status.

Tradeoffs don't have to be 5000/0. You can easily reduce the amount of damage that dual-wielding does and create a block option that has low effectiveness. A complete lack of blocking is not the only option when it comes to making tradeoffs. And honestly? It shouldn't be an option at all.

Can't objectively say that it's a balanced way (your idea, I mean), but currently the hierarchy in Blocking is this:Shield (best) &--#62;One Handed (good)&--#62;Two Handed (barely)&--#62;Dual Wield (none)

Again, it doesn't have to be none. It can be "even more barely" than 2 handed. It can even be zero, actually, it would just be nice to have the option.

It's called a sacrifice. You gain high damage and give away your defensive abilities. It's a fair trade off and it makes perfect sense.

So many people use this argument and can't get past the idea that 0 is not the only option to create a trade-off. Think. More. Broadly.

There is this thing called fundamental balance. You speak of realism as if Skyrim is real life and should reflect real life physics to a T.

Reality check: this is a video game, and it needs balance to be plausible in a VIDEO GAME perspective.

I agree with you, but I don't see this as meaning that you can't block at all with 2 weapons in your hand. From a role play perspective, and from a player frustration perspective when trying to make a fight fun, the absence of any defensive action whatsoever is a complete annoyance. If you have two weapons in your hand and you aren't attacking, then your only option is to stand there. Does nobody on earth see that as frustrating? No matter how effective the block is, it feels better when playing, to be able to do it. It feels more fluid. Feels more realistic. Something doesn't have to actually be realistic in order to seem that way to a player. And from where I'm sitting, that's what matters.

I get annoyed when my only options are "click to attack" or "nothing." That's the argument.

The biggest reason, in my view, is that there is not enough buttons to map on a controller.

There are lots of buttons, this argument is peanuts. They could have used L3 or R3 if it bothered them that much.

Besides, it's irrelevant because I play on a PC. One thing that really burns me about cross-platform games is when one version is hamstrung by the limitations of someone else's console.

I have a different criticism.

Am I the only one that finds the right button-right hand/left button-left hand feature entirely trivial?
The two are not independent of each other, meaning that if you swing your right hand, you have to wait until it's done before swinging your left. Likewise, I also believe that if you wield a dagger and a mace, both hands take on the speed of the dagger, no? This makes dual wielding completely trivial because it doesn't actually afford you any additional speed or damage: the perks do that, not the gimmicky little feature. The gimmicky little feature is just that: a gimmick. If you right clicked and it switched between swinging your right and left hands, the effects on gameplay would be exactly the same, except now the left mouse button is free up for blocking.

But besides that, dual-wielding is completely broken. The moment you get that perk to increase damage of dual-wielded power attacks, you've won. You don't need to block, just spam stamina pots and spam that power attack. Allows you to hit multiple targets, easily has the highest DPS in the game and it's a 100% guarenteed stagger on every hit. This is way too powerful and completely trivializes the need for blocking since you can just stagger-lock opponents.

Sometimes people don't play the game in order to find the most efficient way to kill everything. Did you know that? Some people actually play the game just for the fun of it, and don't really care what the fastest way to kill everyone is.

I still want to dual-wield shields, don't tell me it's a bad idea, i just want.

Exactly. More or less, exactly.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:03 pm

It is a proper argument.

As explained before
One handed weapon + shield = best block, but lowest damage
One handed weapon = worse block, equal damage
Two handed weapon = even worse block, but more damage
Two one handed weapons = no block, but most damage

its a logical system of tadeoff between blocking power and damage.

Oh my god. I can't believe how many people get stuck here.

NON ZERO BALANCE IS POSSIBLE.

Maybe that will help some others beyond this point.
Even your own freaking list is unbalanced. Notice that the first option in your list includes best block but lowest damage. Strange that it doesn't say best block but NO damage eh?

Why in the world doesn't the last item say "Worst block but best damage." You know, to be the inverse of the first?

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:43 am

Goodness Varus finally someone who understands lol. My favorite quote was "Think more broadly" Im starting to see that a lot of people on the forums are closed minded and only look at things are directly in front of them.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:20 pm

We should be able to have a parry option with DW at least.

ie: intercept his attacck with one or both weapons. Also crossing the two weapons could be use for blocking but rendering both the player and attacker unable to attack for a while of course

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:17 pm

I finally decided to do a redguard playthrough who dual wields weapons since redguards are weapon masters. So while playing I get extremely annoyed by not being able to block while dual wielding. I get mauled fairly quickly with no kind of defense mechanism. Bethesda can fix this in a number of ways.

The first which is the obvious is let us block while dual wielding, now I understand blocking while dual wielding is not an entirely effective way to block but its better then blocking with your arms while a pack of wolves bite your flesh. So yeah blocking needs to be in, WITH a chance to be disarmed and get your weapon knocked out of your hands depending on the force.

Another option is bringing back everyone's "favorite" skill which is acrobatics. The ability to roll or backflip in oblivion was the difference between life and death, and its absence in skyrim doesn't change that fact. Apart from obviously looking cool, it is very fundamental for certain types of characters like the rouge or assassin. So I think this should seriously be looked at for the next TES games. And will make dual wielding weapons very solid.

Another thing that needs work is the kill moves. Their is a very small amount of actual killmoves for dual wielding weapons. Forget the different weapon types, just dual wielding kill moves are lacking. It looks very awkward to see a killmove designed for a one handed weapon used for someone who is dual wielding weapons.

The combined attacks when using both weapons simultaneously is very few for animations. Seeing the same animations get old really quick, it would be nice if bethesda had a pool of attack animations and the game randomly picks any of those attacks to keep in fresh.

In the end the dual wielding weapons mechanic is one of the weakest combat aspects of the entire game. And I hope someone from bethesda reads this to take this into consideration when doing the next TEs.

RFLOL if you read the loading screens one does says something like the following dual wielding weapons=CANT BLOCK....
Dont like it dont dual wield. I only had one character that was a dual wielder. After getting all the weapon perks and %perks in one handed I was just killing everything left and right. Made the game very boaring..........So I stick with Sword/Shield or two handed weapons only.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:08 pm

RFLOL if you read the loading screens one does says something like the following dual wielding weapons=CANT BLOCK....
Dont like it dont dual wield. I only had one character that was a dual wielder. After getting all the weapon perks and %perks in one handed I was just killing everything left and right. Made the game very boaring..........So I stick with Sword/Shield or two handed weapons only.

U are absolutely right, dual wielding shouldnt be expanded upon with new stuff and changing it is blasphemy. Right lol

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:10 pm

Have you ever played on master difficulty?

No I like my games to be fun. The few times I have messed with master the same rules still apply, its just your punished much harder for messing up. With the extra damage from master using a potion to increase your armor rating will help.

I find the gameplay to be very simply and I am perfectly happy with that.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:42 am

I get that the topic creater wants more stuff, everyone of his post seems to be about adding more stuff. Most of us that look at his post are not thinking about adding things to the game or next game or what ever he has in mind. We're just dealing with the game the way it is now as most of us are not modders or devs and in my case not a pc player, so talking about adding something that changes how the game works means little.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:53 am

U are absolutely right, dual wielding shouldnt be expanded upon with new stuff and changing it is blasphemy. Right lol

dual wielding shouldnt be expanded upon with new stuff and changing it is blasphemy :bunny:

Glad we agree on this :biggrin:

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:28 pm

Yeah, I agree that it needs to be changed. Even though dual-wielding is my favorite fighting style in Skyrim, I feel like left-handed animations while horsed and having the offhand weapon be properly sheathed at your belt when not in use would be nice.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:08 pm

Repeating what′s false doesn′t make it right. Come back with a proper argument.

No.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:49 am

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/14915

There actually is dual wield block, it's right there.
Only for the glorious pc gaming master race.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:17 pm

I get that the topic creater wants more stuff, everyone of his post seems to be about adding more stuff. Most of us that look at his post are not thinking about adding things to the game or next game or what ever he has in mind. We're just dealing with the game the way it is now as most of us are not modders or devs and in my case not a pc player, so talking about adding something that changes how the game works means little.

No actually it means a lot, this is called fan feedback. Bethesda does look at this stuff, maybe not everthing, maybe not even this post. But post like these make them self aware. I mean look at bioware, they were proud about their ending and felt like it was the best thing in the world. Until the fans made the company aware of its shortcomings.

Same concept here, only thing is that bethesda usually gets their things right most of the time. Im not entirely upset of the dual wielding just want to let bethesda know and here you guys thoughts on the matter.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:12 pm

No actually it means a lot, this is called fan feedback. Bethesda does look at this stuff, maybe not everthing, maybe not even this post. But post like these make them self aware. I mean look at bioware, they were proud about their ending and felt like it was the best thing in the world. Until the fans made the company aware of its shortcomings.

Same concept here, only thing is that bethesda usually gets their things right most of the time. Im not entirely upset of the dual wielding just want to let bethesda know and here you guys thoughts on the matter.

Be careful what you wish for. Instead of improving dual wielding, they'll just get rid of it.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:58 pm

Be careful what you wish for. Instead of improving dual wielding, they'll just get rid of it.

I would hope that, its a great feature just needs to be expanded upon.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:49 pm

It ok to criticise but I'd like to know what buttons people expect them to use to achieve block whilst still having the ability to control both hands?

Right button attacks with both hands automatically if two weapons are equipped. Left button blocks. Thats how it could have been done. Not saying should just answering the question.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:54 pm

I would hope that, its a great feature just needs to be expanded upon.

Lol, not in Bethesda's eyes. They'll probably just gut it as they have with many other things.

» Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:37 am

By "blocking", do you mean "parrying"? Because that makes slightly more sense.