Just my two cents, and a couple of points of clarification:

Machine pistol = a full auto pistol, typically set on a standard pistol frame, can be fired in the typical two-hand fashion of a normal semi-auto pistol or revolver. Chambered only in pistol rounds due to recoil. Machine pistols are a tad hard to nail down by definition because of things that can be added on like a light shoulder stock, or come from a derivative design of an actual SMG. Typically the delineation is the length of the barrel and lack of a fore end. Examples include: MAC 10, TEC 9, Glock variations, Micro Uzi, etc.

SMG = Submachine gun. Typically chambered in pistol rounds, longer barrel than standard pistols, and have either a fore end or fore grip, to be held like a rifle, but shouldered closer to the body). Example: German (H&K) MP5.

Assault Rifle = a fully automatic, selective-fire rifle chambered in an "intermediate" cartridge, and has a detachable magazine. Examples: RUS AK series, US AR series, and a plethora of others.

LMG = Light machine gun. Chambered in smaller caliber rounds. It is lightweight and compact to be employed by a single soldier, with or without an assistant. Example: US M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW).

MMG = Medium machine gun. Belt fed machine gun, chambered in typical calibers (example .308/7.62 x 51 or 7.62 x 54) of the battle rifles, and considered crew served. Example: RUS PKM, US M-60 / M240 series.

Take aways:

The FO 10mm SMG (FO3 and FONV) is not employed like an actual SMG but a pistol. I'm actually OK with Bethesda's vision of the 10mm pistol set up as a machine pistol...although chambered in a .40 equivalent, it would have fairly significant recoil held in the standard two hand pistol fashion.

With the exception of the machine pistol, I think all others that we talk about from the above list should have a stand alone model. Instead, the FO4 mod system forces us to re-chamber and modify a couple of set models to conform to the different functions of the above models. I think this is what most folks are unhappy about regarding ballistic weapons....in addition to others like damage, range and chambering.

Design issues make little sense, and to me, Bethesda seems to have taken artistic license way too far. If I didn't know better, I'd swear they have no clue what they're doing with ballistic weapons...but caveat that with the reality of their mod system being implemented (regardless of what I think about that personally). NV had it all worked out with appropriate DAM / DPS, and range stats, with infinitely more choice, variety and specialization. All Beth had to do was implement a fun and well thought out ballistic weapons system, and add to it. Instead, they decided to contract, streamline, and turn weapons modding into a blah exercise in Minecraft-like tedium.

Builds, specializations, choice and ballistics discussions were far more deep and enjoyable for New Vegas. It's a fairly flat subject, at least in my view, in FO4. After all, play long enough and you can do everything...even if with bizarre and unmemorable weapons.

Some of the real ballistic weapon issues include:

How can a combat rifle be chambered in a pistol round?

Why is the .50 so underpowered, and basically only seems to be added as an afterthought, thrown onto the equivalent of a structurally unmodified Remington 700 bolt-action.

Why the hideous and ultra-heavy design for the assault rifle? I mean, it comes at us weighing in at a "lean" 27 pounds properly modded; probably instead, should have been a medium machine gun , since it almost matches the exact weight of a US M240B, as opposed the much lighter M4 at 7.5 lbs fully loaded...the intended design of a weapon designated as such...then give us a proper "assault" rifle.

Why the loss or streamlining of weapon designs and ammunition? It is such a loss, that we now have to stoop down to the level of interjecting magic into the franchise through a ridiculous Legendary drop system? Whereas before, these "legendary" effects were far better handled through specialization perks (Shotgun Surgeon); a well thought out mod system (match barrels, etc); being able to switch between ammo types (armor piercing or explosive); or creating and using handloads (match or semi-wad cutters).

Having more base weapons would be a good start, sure. They may throw a bone or two at us to get us to shut up or merely build on their vision of ballistic mediocrity, but it won't be enough to get this "shooting" game up to speed...there are many other things that need to be addressed or redressed. Now having seen Bethesda so arbitrarily and haphazardly reject the inclusion of so much ballistic goodness that came before, and their willingness to streamline and walk backwards to force feed us a not so much fun, mod crafting system, I'm really not going to hold my breath.

Hey, at least they give us a toolkit, and after enough time we'll get much of this addressed. Too bad it couldn't have started out stellar, and gotten better, as opposed to being a repair effort.

agree completely.

got a bet with a friend going for how long untill ammo mods are modded in and legendary's are modded out.

the legendary weapons fail flat, I mean really I got an explosive led pipe some where, worst weapon ever.

Two weapons and one mod made me head desk:

Spray and Pray: Are you kidding me? This Tommy gun magically shoots explosive ammo...hmmmm. But I don't actually have anything in my ammo inventory. What the heck happened to...you know...EXPLOSIVE ammo? We actually had those before.

Two-Shots: So let me get this right, this particular weapon magically shoots two rounds, but doesn't actually shoot TWO rounds. Got it. What about match barrels and handloads and throw the magic in the dumpster. Then we could apply it to any weapon we want. You know...give control and liberty to the player...not some idiotic RNG.

Armor Piercing Barrel: I don't even have the words.

Yeah, the ammo types and extended capabilities we used to have are noticeably absent...and sorely missed. I'm honestly wondering how much of these capabilities can seamlessly be re-inserted. I, for one, will absolutely add on a Legendary removal mod when it becomes available.

Yup, they slipped...very badly imo. Or they just didn't give a D... and went for their own vision of "alien" weapons, that was seen as weapons, but still far apart enough from the real counterparts. Making it their own. I dunno, but it still failed in my view either way.

Now I am danish, not swedish, but "kulsprutepistolen" would be, if translated directly, more like "bullet (kul) spraying (spruten) pistol (pistolen) In danish we say "maskinepistol" after the german machinenpistole. Funny enough, we danes have a nickname for the "maskinepistol" which is "kuglespr?jte" which means bullet sprayer (like the swedish)

H&K MP7 is both, because of the folding stock and folding foregrip, but can be used without.

they can easily re-add ammo by removing the legendary weapons and replacing said drops with either A unique ammo's or B unique mods.

example kill a legendary deathclaw, get one of 2 things from it.

deathclaw scale mod

info: adds 20 DR to a combat or leather armor

deathclaw blood mod

info: adds poison to a melee weapon.

or a rad roach and get a poison mod for melee weapons or an irradiated coating for making ammo.

super mutants and raiders would have unique ammos which they will use ranging from explosive to duplex ammo (which is basicly what the two round guns are firing), as well as unique weapon mods like a cryo blade for machete's.

I think the REAL shame is how much of a nerfing Unarmed builds got from FO3. The deathclaw gauntlet is laughable(I expected to have a deathclaw hand on my arm but got some finger bones instead.)


There's only like 4 base unarmed weapons. All of which are pretty disappointing.(with the fact they arent compatible with power armor.)

I absolute agree on that. In F:NV obsidian solved it with different ammo types for to buy with a lot higher pricing and not so much availability.

And now in F4 my 10mm is able to magical turn my bullet into an explosive round - simsalabim. Unique weapons should have another skin and for sure some effekt, but something that is plausible like higher rof, leightweight, better scopes or whatever but not magic.

But i don′t think they will change the half baked drop system - they tried to make it a bit borderlands but borderlands is also a multiplayer game where legendary weapons are assigned for to drop on specific enemies so it does not really make sense to farm something in Fallout 4 that drops totally random.

For sure i would like to see some of the great classic weapons from F2 back in the game, but Bethesda already designed different looks for F3 and in F4 we again have different looking styles for the same weapons (whyever, must be some serious post-war underground facility that still changes the design and look of stuff).

As much as I hope for a Gunrunners type DLC, I don't see it happening. It's just not a priority for Bethesda if their weapon design and system choices (that we waited 5 years for), are any indicator. They went so far in the opposite direction, that to me, it spoke volumes of their opposition to what Obsidian brought us with New Vegas. It clearly showed us their weapon priorities, and that this is pretty much the way its going to be, as bland as it is. So, I predict no weapon pack. They're totally invested in their way, and there is really no room to dramatically expand NV type weapon choice in any meaningful way...and also maintain their mod crafting system.

Ammo types are out; they just relapsed back, and did little more than what FO3 gave us..."shotgun shells." That told me a lot as well. Handloads? As much as it pains me, we probably ought to just forget that's even existed.

I wouldn't mind, and am definitely open to, being surprised though.

It's clear Bethesda's design philosophy is very different from Obsidian when it comes to guns, and which you prefer, but are you sure you're not being just a little dramatic? I wouldn't count on a weapons-pack DLC, either, but that's because Bethesda quit that after Horse Armor. What I think we can count on from DLC: More guns, more mods, and more legendary effects. "Their opposition to what Obsidian brought us with New Vegas" is a bit of a stretch, too, considering all the things Bethesda did draw on from New Vegas. (fleshed out companions, morally ambiguous factions, and weapon modding in the first place)

But yeah, they chose to focus on more original and retrofuturistic designs instead of imitating a ton of popular real-world guns, making each gun modifiable to serve a wide range of purposes instead of filling those different roles with completely different guns, and a Diablo-style loot system with fantastical effects.

Please. There will be more weapons, armor and crafting options in the DLCs. Drama much?

NEED :

< Barrel > < Muzzle >

- a Light Machine Gun * auto barrel ( commando perk ) , * Muzzlebreak

( non-chineese design) * sniper barrel ( Rifleman perk ) * Silencer

* long barrel ( for Rifleman Build )

scrap the legendary bonuses :

- no more Fire / Plasma / Cold / Explosive / Poison bullets - please these belong on skyrim not in fallout

- replace with ( faster shot / increase damage % )

- keep Wounding effect - it simulates gunshot damage to organisms very well

- balance the mods : one effect shouldn't be ALOT better then the other