Modeller here, offering help if needed...

We're still working on this, albeit slowly atm as we're waiting on Ethatron and Lightwave to hash out some issues (i.e. programming in OScape and TesAnnwyn) to get us past the CK issues with heightmaps and LOD generation.

However, we're narrowing things down on what to do and how to do it...

If you're really interested in helping out, drop me a PM and I'll add you to the google group...

Dreams are good! Yes, I'm aware of the Beyond Skyrim project, I drop in there to read up on what they're doing every so often... Yes, I'd love it if the 2x (or 3x) we're working on would become the standard, but I doubt it for what they're doing... getting other Modders on board when we have something is much more likely...

If, and that's a huge if, there were to be a way (or to become a way) at some point to program-wise to move x1 objects into the 2x/3x landmass we're doing, and it could automatically place said objects to their relevant locations on the larger landmass, requiring little hand work to make things seamless (i.e. no trees poking through buildings, no tears in landscape, and the like), that would be awesome... Don't know if that'll ever happen, but one can dream right?

I'm sure it's possible. It just requires someone with sufficient knowledge of mathematics and programming to move every object by a certain amount to maintain its position in the world. That said, maybe it's ten times more difficult than that. We'll see

Except that landscapes would have to be at 1x too.

Could be quite the interesting undertaking.

I'd most definitely try to contribute with ideas and anything else. Also, would like to actually try learning how to mod. Maybe add some random stuff specific to this endeavor. As something for people to do. And myself, as well. Talk about being tossed into the ocean in order to learn how to swim.

Edit: Actually, I'll probably do other things first, to get some experience.

No they wouldn't. Lightwave has already created the program which can transfer content from a 1x worldspace to a 2x worldspace, it just needs fine-tuning to resolve the slightly misaligned z coordinate.

This is a mod, that I would pay for, like everyone else, I think the content level of Skyrim is great, but the landmass just lacks that epic feeling. Travel should mean something, having to camp for the night, or get room at an inn is important for immersion. I watched the new Conan, and the movie jumps from one place to another, with very little continuity, while the old Conan has those travel shots of the character running across the plains and camping, very immersive. That is a lesson that both film and game makers should pay attention to.

Hmm, I guess I was under the impression that only took objects, not the landscape itself. So it's whole cell replacement?

Oblivion's Cyrodiil, imo, needed to be scaled up along x and y, but not along z. There are such steep roads all over that would be hard to pass on foot and impossible for any type of coach or wagon. Examples are the road to IC, to Chorrol, to Bruma...

I noticed on video that even Skyrim in its opening sequence has a road that is too steep impo! So be careful when scaling up the worldspace.

No, I don't think that's an issue. Where a road currently is too steep, you can add an additional "loop" into it, making the road longer but less steep. Instead of going for 100m at a 9% gradient, it goes for 100m at 3%, turns left 180 degrees, goes back another 100m at 3%, turns right another 180 degrees and finishes the last 100m at 3% too.

But would you really want to change all the roads with problems rather than circumventing the problem alltogether?

You are thinking of serpentines, but only road that had it in Oblivion was road to Kvatch, which was probably passed twice by average player. I don't know the situation in Skyrim though, except of what I've seen in videos.
Serpentines are good, but it requires a lot of manual landscape editing.
So I don't really see why you said:

Whole worldspace replacement, including the landscape rescaled.

An interesting idea.

Seems like none in this thread is aware that the following gamebreaking bug is definitely going to affect this project as well:

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1348275-gamebreaking-bug-for-worldspaces-bigger-than-4-quads-in-width/

Vanilla Tamriel is almost 4 quads in width already, if you're going to enlarge it you're definitely going over that. And then the above happens, it is not limited to new worldspaces, Tamriel is affected as well. So please help make our voice heard in the hopes that Bethesda hears us and fixes this bug, saving all our big landmass projects!

Yes.

I like the contrast of winding roads where they are made by people who don't have much of a technical means to make them straighter contrasting with straight, mostly even roads full of tunnels, high bridges and cutting through hills made by an advanced "Roman" civilisation existing side by side. I like how old roads can get forgotten and fall apart where old trade routes aren't profitable anymore, due to a multitude of factors. I like when I see new roads using parts of old in their construction, maybe even retaining some of the different building style. This can tell a lot about who lives in the area as well as its history. It tells a lot about what used to be important routes across the land, and can tie in nicely with the big stories of fallen empires, cataclysms, wars and famines as well as the raise of new powers.

From the state of a road, from where it leads from and to where it goes, from the changes along its course, from how it deals with the natural terrain - if it subjugates it or works around natural obstacles - you can read a lot of information.

This, however, requires a lot of thought. It also requires a varied terrain with lots of cliffs and hard to navigate terrain. A road along some gentle hills will have some curvature here and there, but it will mostly look the same no matter who made it, and which tools where used to make it. A road through steep hills and mountains? Exploring it is an adventure for anyone with a keen eye and a sense for details.

Slope grades remain unchanged when you scale up proportionally. And while you might have a problem with the grade of vanilla roads from...what, watching videos?...there are an adequate number of switchbacks to maintain realism for this mountain-state kid. And frankly, having real mountains is preferrable to road-realism in my mind--scaling along everything but the z axis would make that much more glaring problem with vanilla that much worse.

Couple of things: first, I think it's nonsense to scale everything proportionally. In any case, you search realism but in reality you'll seldom find that things go field-field-field-Mount Everest suddenly. In most cases there are all sorts of hills and lower mountains in between. Second, yes I saw in the detail of very inclined wagon in opening scene on a video because I haven't purchased Skyrim at all. Does that in any way discredit me when posting my opinion? To me that adds to realism, roads that could actually be useful.
Third, I don't know the situation in Skyrim, but I gave in my opinion good examples from Oblivion. I think that worldspace of Cyrodiil should have been scaled by x and y by at least 2, while z was good. IMO, that would be much better proportion.

Uneven scaling wont be happening, you cant scale meshes unevenly and since huge amounts of Skyrims landscapes are made out of various sized rock and cliff mesh props the task of the rescaling would go from daunting to impossible. The only way this will work is if most of the work of the rescale is done by computer.

Also don't go thinking that you could scale the meshes unevenly in 3dsmax or something, because the meshes are rotated and moved in the level, so the scaling wouldn't match the world anyway.

Anyhow, uneven scaling is impossible without manually redoing pretty much the whole world, even if perhaps 2x2x1.5 might look a bit nicer in some ways.

As I said before, it's an interesting idea. Unfortunately, what Korbhan said is correct, it would be really really really difficult, and all the meshes would need reshaping too which would most likely distort them. If the meshes could be reshaped I'd be in favour of trying what you suggest, I just don't think it's viable.

I would love to see this made but i feel you need a big team of people with lots of time on their hands to undertake such a project otherwise it'll never happen. If there are people with such time and the mod would be possible with no program limitations then great, cant wait for it.

Having the size doubled would be absolutely amazing. Coupled with a city expansion mod that really makes them feel like cities and not run down villages, it would make for an amazing game. It would also give a meaning to horses since it would take a loooong time to go from town to town on foot. Especially if you're running a realism mod with hunger/thirst and you have to plan your journey.

The more I think about it, the more I want it. Great idea.

Aye, we're aware of it... I don't post often, but I read almost continuously... a 2x Skrim is under the 4 quad issue (3.7quads) so that doesn't impact us in that front... The 3x one does however as that comes out to 5.6 quads.

Now if Beth would just fix the CK issues...



You assume that it'll all have to be done by hand. It doesn't. Lightwave has plenty of experience with landmass enlargement with TessAnnwyn.. since he wrote it (TesAnnwyn that is)... He's already scaled up Skyrim to x2, gotten the actors (npc's/critters) to remain at x1... He's working on getting other areas to keep (most) 'man made' objects at x1... Things like Bridges need to be upscaled or they'll look really... odd...

Even with Lightwave's magic, yes, there will still be a lot of work involved... but it doesn't require a gazillion people to work on it, and while we'd love to have it done soon, we'd rather have it done right... so if it takes a while to come out, so be it.

Sounds like he's made real progress already then which is good, i see, forgive my lack of knowledge on what needs to be done. Yes i agree it should be done properly and take a while rather than rushed.

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