Where are you going to carry the arrows to replace the ones in your quiver when they run out?

Normally, extra arrows are carried in your inventory. If you have limited arrows [most games do have a limit on the number you can carry in a quiver], you run out eventually. You carry more bundles/quivers/whatever you want to call them in your inventory, where they are taking up slots until you need them. In Morrowind I think the limit to a stack of items was 99. You have more than that, you take up another slot.

Meh, the quakecon video was a reference, obviously a poor one, visuals tend to be the best way of explaining something. If there's a specific quote saying they're working on combat weight, then I vaguely remember it, and I wouldn't be surprised, it will be interesting to see the changes they make. But I never recall them saying arrows will ever actually look like they hit or have a physical form after being fired, and I don't know if that would fall under the combat weight improvements they are working on.

Anyways, I was mostly focusing on the arrows, not combat weight in general, the other examples were to illustrate my frustration at most MMOs lacking in that department.

i really wouldn't care about such a small "obstacle".

-solution: increase the stack size

Trivial. But the balance issues and economy/crafting issues are not, and that is why they aren't in.

I would assume that they would include ALL weapons in that. It would be the logical choice. But it is only an assumption. I dont think they ever specificly said bows with that but I dont think it was necessary. It would just be stupid for them to not be included.

I have no qualms with limited, quantifiable arrows. But I think having an unlimited supply is simply better design in the end.

To me, it makes archery indistinguishable from magic. It's functionally the same thing in ESO. No need to actually aim or range or lead a target and no ammo = magic to me. I am leaning away from archery now, whereas before it was my #1 choice.

It's a balancing problem.

Say there would be ammo, the need for actually aiming and all that stuff...
Why should anyone choose to use a bow exccept for having a hard life?

In Skyrim bows were balanced for that reason by being able to use them for sneak-attacks, in earlier TES games you had to sleep in order to regenerate Magicka as well as any other gear needed mending.


For solo-questing this might not be a big issue but ESO has a bit of an RvR-focus which makes balancing a necessity.

So you can stack unlimited arrows in one place. No matter how much you increase the stack size, if you don't want to run out, you will stockpile arrows. If you have a finite stack size, you will need more than one, and will take up slots. If you increase the stack size to infinity, you have unlimited arrows.

Gee. Unlimited arrows. There's a concept there somewhere.

I'd give them a chance on that if I were you. Quite sure you'll find some material differences. Ammo is by far not the only distinguishing feature of archery.

This is where I'm at with it. It's a very unattractive skill, at this point.

And also for me... It's just mindless spamming. In which case, one would not feel like they or the character posses any skill at all. Now, give me something with a decent range, ammunitions management, player controlled aiming, arrow flight trajectory, and locational damage, then we have something worthy of actually being labeled as Archery.

I've yet to hear *any* response to the criticism of imbalance here, but regardless, trajectory and locational damage would, I think, be far too much of a demand on the server, in a situation where hundreds of others are doing the same thing. You'd have people rage-quitting all over the shop because of the dreaded lag.

What imbalance? If you have crap damage output to start with and are awarded with higher damage form a well placed shot, where's the imbalance?

Latency is more of a crutch and a cop out that players of today want to lean on when they are in support of an automatic mechanic. Technology is advanced enough that latency has become less of an issue than it was in years past.

[quote name="Accolon" post="23163682" timestamp="1386060433"]

It's a balancing problem.

In Skyrim bows were balanced for that reason by being able to use them for sneak-attacks, in earlier TES games you had to sleep in order to regenerate Magicka as well as any other gear needed mending.

I agree its a balancing problem, however;

Earlier TES games you had to sleep & had arrows and a lot of other stuff because it was taken almost directly from D&D which was taken from Chainmail which was taken from miniture battle systems. At least in earlier systems they made more of an effort to be realistic.

I typically don't main an archer in TES, but let me assure you that in most RPG's I primarily play an archer, it fits my play style well.

If arrows aren't unlimited I will find very quickly a way to make that an arbitrary limitation.

There are about 3 or so games that made this not very possible:

Dynasty Warriors 2-4: I could hold what, like 20 arrows?

and

Assasins Creed

Aside from that I will assure you I would go to any ridiculous lengths necessary to "spray amd pray" with my arrows.

-example-

In Dungeons and Dragons I wanted to play a ranged paladin. Eventually I realized I could summon my horse/ horses gear 1/day. so I would load up my Horse with all the weight he could carry in arrows. At this point he pretty much had armor made of quivers for arrows, (and typically I would fire 8-16/ round)

-Video Game Example-

In Tes, with Arrows being free weight, any time I would go to any store I would just purchase their entire stock of arrows. The amount of gold I was spending in it was negligible, because the weight is free, and I knew I would use them at SOME point. Eventually I would have pages and pages of arrows of all varieties, and I would never fear running out. Even if it weighs SOMETHING, no one in their right minds would make it weigh TOO much, and if Stam still ups Carry Capacity, then you bet yer ass my Archer will have really high stamina.

Trust me unlimited arrows MAKES things a fair fight. If they think that having arrows be in limited supply helps to BALANCE ranged combat, then that simply means Ranged combat is comparatively overpowered, and that quite arbitrary restriction of "have arrows" will easily be overcame. If it weighs something, you bet my inventory will be little else than a smattering of potions, the two bows I wanna use, and 30 arrows for every one of those two thousand mother [censored] running around Cyrodil

I'm *really* trying not to do the "have you even read the thread" line (it annoys me no end when others say that to me), but really, this was mentioned at least three times on just the first page of this thread: limited ammo would be a financial/inventory burden on archers that is not present for any other weapon type. Thus, it is unbalanced.

Regarding latency, neither of us is an expert at server logistics, so I'll step away from that one, as we're both just making educated guesses there.

Latency is still an issue and will always be an issue. anyone who says any difference has absolutely no idea about server tech or how latency works. It is how long it takes for the server to get and respond to something you did, whether it be from a keypress, or a mouse click, or whatever. The farther away you are from a server, the more latency you get no matter what. Having good graphics also affects latency because the game needs to load more and more graphical pixels and other data the better it is, which means people with only decent computers will have more latency than people with even decent gaming computers and they will be outclassed by the people who have built what is basically a super-computer. The server and game devs can try and steamline as much as possible but it will never get rid of latency.

And IMO, a game should not have an entire Play-style be only useful if you have an amazing computer.

Also, It is in no-way fun when you are in a dungeon and one of your damage dealing teammates is using a bow and has run out of arrow. IT is unfair to bow-users that they are the only class to be hindered by by this. Mages have their magicka regened constantly, and warriors have no such problems besides repairing gear, of which is something all characters have to deal with.

You're kidding... Your "imbalance" issue is with finance and inventory? Arrows can be added to loot and recovered from fallen enemies. As well as being crafted and retrieved from fence posts and barn doors when you miss.

Where most see "burden", I see and added level of gameplay. If that causes rage quit then even better,. It culls the herd and weeds out the riff-raff.

One shouldn't assume upon others. However, you don't have to be a server logistics expert to realize you are experiencing smooth and responsive gameplay. I'm not a professional Baseball player either, but I can tell a talented pitcher when I see one.

I never said it was non existent. I said it was less of an issue and so much so it has very little effect. Now, in some cases it can but not to the point that most are trying to make it out to be.

Go play ANY MMO with something that is not home-build or a $1000+ gaming comptuer and you will quickly learn it is still very much an issue especially when there are a huge amount of people around all using flashy spells and abilties.

Ok...

Why must the populous suffer because some players don't have the right equipment.? We're not talking about Titan Vid Cards. The top of the line tech that was out 2 years ago is more than capable and a complete system is well within a small budget of a few hundred dollars.

The same budget that is upon the X1 and P4 interests. Are you suggesting that the console has surpassed the PC, in the commons?

Agreed.

Until we can get Quantum computers as the norm, the simple issue of electricity running down wires = latency.

Physics hasn't changed in the last several years so far as I've heard.

I really think you're assuming too much if you think mere observation to be sufficient to determine server capacity, but as I say, that one's hard to prove either way, so that argument is pointless and needs to slide.

You've seriously got an elitist attitude here. You may enjoy having to run to town and buy arrows, then go around and recover them from walls/bodies/gulleys, but it is safe to say that the majority does not. Thus, implementing this feature would harm more people than it would help. Are you that selfish? Go to ZOS and tell them that you want to 'cull their herd' of customers. See how that works out.

And besides all this, your post does not address the fact that no other weapon has this onerous requirement. Swords and staves require no consumable ammo that needs to be crafted/bought, and then retrieved once used. This. Is. Not. Balanced. You may not care about it, but I rather suspect that the good folks at ZOS aren't ecstatic about putting a tax on only one weapon to give a minority a better roleplaying experience.

There is also another aspect of balance. That of an additional resource to take into account. Go out of ammo in a dungeon? Have to run back to town to get new ammo? You will not be making folks happy. For personal and solo play I can see your point and then I prefer limited arrows. But not in an mmo.

Edit: In case you dont get my meaning with 'dungeon'... I mean a lengthy bossfight.

Wow. More elitism. Buy a new PC or GTCO? Nice attitude.

Think you'll find that the devs' intent differs materially from yours:

"our goal is to make the game playable on any PC (Windows OS) or Mac purchased within the last five years"

http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/264/