10 reasons why subscriptions are a bad idea.

Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:26 am

Since certain individuals on this forum like to play the "report people you disagree with" game - I will be reporting anyone that trolls, insults, flames, or is otherwise abusive in this thread. Thanks.
1. Zenimax is a TINY studio compared to Blizzard, and even Blizzard (the subscription-based MMO everyone points to as a pillar of success) is losing subscribers left and right. What makes you think Zenimax will have the resources or employees to keep pace with the demands of a ravenous subscriber base. Blizzard can't - I find it hard to believe that a much smaller studio can do what Blizzard can't.
2. Subscription fees push away casual players. As much as the MMO elitists would love to revel in glee at this fact - these are horrible business practices. It's like opening a hotdog stand and putting up paywalls for 50% of your consumer base. MMOs are no different than any other product in a capitalist system - it succeeds by appealing to the largest group possible. You NEED casual players to make this work. Zenimax wants AS MANY CUSTOMERS AS POSSIBLE. Not just the self-proclaimed "Elite" - World of Warcraft is also not indicative of future results either. They were the first on the scene, in many ways, and tapped into the upswing of a craze that has reached its peak. Nobody is ever going to get WoW numbers again - there are too many MMOs, too many free options, and the populations are too disbursed. As stated before, it's already been established that WoW is losing subscribers with each quarter.
3. Subscription-based MMOs are not sustainable, players are basically looking for reasons to cancel their subscriptions when the content dries up. If Zenimax doesn't offer compelling and COPIOUS amounts of content every month (and every month is a minimum) players will soon finish the main questline and cancel their subscriptions. Unless you're Mit Romney or Donald Trump, you're not going to stay subscribed unless you feel like you're getting your money's worth. As much as people (particularly on this forum) would love to demonize people's efforts to save money - EVERYBODY WANTS TO SAVE MONEY. Everybody does. Nobody goes out of their way to pay EXTRA money.
4. Subscriptions hold your characters hostage: By requiring a subscription to play ESO - you are essentially "renting" your characters. You don't own them, and as soon as you cancel your subscription you've lost access to those characters. For a buy2play game, such as Guild Wars 1, I can still fire that game up and roll around the world if I want to - almost 10 years later. For all intents and purposes, I own that character and progress. It will not be taken away from me if I fail to pay a monthly fee.
5. Subscription fees and cash shops *should* be mutually exclusive business models. Yeah that's right, if I am paying a monthly subscription fee - I'm not interested in seeing, hearing from, or participating in a cash shop. That's the reason why people play subscription-based MMOs in the first place! So they don't have to deal with the drama and sleaze of a cash shop in their face. For ESO to be announcing both a subscription fee, cash shop, and probably having an initial cost of 60 dollars, it's mind blowing. It's a level of arrogance and greed that I haven't seen in a game company in a long time. This is beyond even Blizzard level greed. This is up there with EA level greed, and that's a freakin' boat load of greed folks. Even if the cash shop is entirely optional and whatever, it's still a paywall between you and content that should be provided to you via your subscription fee. It's also disrespectful to consumers and, frankly, pretty sleazy. It's about as absurd as paying a monthly subscription fee for cable TV, only to be bombarded with commercials every 60 seconds.
6. Subscription fees are the anthithesis of choice: In a traditional buy2play model, you pay for the game upfront and you own that copy of the game. You can play through all the content you wish, after which the developers may release ADDITIONAL content in the form of an expansion pack or DLC. If this content is something that the customer WANTS, he or she may purchase it. If not, there is no forced participation, there is no obligation to pay - the customer merely continues with the 60 dollars worth of content they already purchased. This model works because it gives customers the choice to purchase content that they want, and avoid content that they don't. In most cases, people will always buy the expansion packs. It's a given. The studio wins because they're making money via box sales (a model that GW2 has done very well with, by the way) and the consumer wins by having a choice in the matter.
7. Subscription fees, in the eyes of consumers, equal content NOT server costs: This is a huge disconnect between consumers and MMO providers these days. People assume that their subscription fees every month entitle them to brand new fresh content, when in fact those subscription fees are probably just being used to pay for bandwidth and server fees. Frankly, server costs should be an anticpated expense on the part of Zenimax - and not pushed onto the consumer. Back in 2004 when servers were much more expensive and bandwdith was a much more finite commodity, it would seem understandable that you'd have to charge people for bandwidth and server access - nowadays in 2013, we've seen plenty of MMOs and buy2play games that offer very robust and lag-free multiplayer servers for zero cost to the consumer. What makes Zenimax servers so special exactly? HINT: The answer is 'nothing'
8. Subscription fees must be constantly and frequently "justified" to your consumer base: This is a huge drawback of the subscription fee, and expands upon a point I made earlier. As a company, you have to constantly justify that subscription cost (in the form of content) or people will leave. Netflix had a great initial run. Everybody remembers Netflix right? They had a huge selection, people were watching entire seasons of shows left and right. Then the selection dried up. Netflix jacked the prices up, cut features that we were originally getting for free, and people began to reconsider the "value" of that subscription. Zenimax will be no different. They may be able to keep people for several months, or a year, with planned content - but the model is not sustainable. There will occur a time when people will not feel that 15.00 is worth the expense of the content they are being provided. Why would Zenimax put this kind of pressure and scrutiny on themselves when this is their first MMO game and they've got so much invested in this? To me, it's setting yourself up for failure. We've seen it so many times.
9. A lack of subscription fees does NOT equal pay2win: This is a false equivalency. You can always tell when someone is being manipulative with an argument when they present things as the difference between two extremes. It's like saying: If I can't get the Fortune 500 job I want, I'm gonna go be a drug-addicted stripper to make money instead. Nothing in life is ever the decision between two extremes. Opting for a buy2play or free2play model doesn't mean your game has to be pay2win. It doesn't mean that you have to have a sleazy cash shop that degrades and violates your consumer's sensibilities. It's a ridiculous argument to assume that it has to be one way or another. We've seen with such games as Guild Wars 2 that a company can be very profitable via box sales while still avoiding the traditional free2play cash shop sleaze.
10. Public opinion of subscriptions is fairly negative: Nevermind the fact that subscription fees among console players who are already paying fees to access the Playstation Network or Xbox Live are almost going to be universally negative, most people view subscription fees in a negative way. The public perception about this choice by Zenimax is almost entirely negative, with only a select bubble on this forum acting as supporters. If you talk with average people (The people that Zenimax NEEDS to make their game successful) they do not believe that subscription fees are a value for MMO games in this day and age. The concept almost feels antiquated at this point. We've seen that the buy2play models for gaming are more popular and attract more people. We've seen that free2play (with a few exceptions) has been a very popular system for many MMO games. Not only does it remove the pressure off the developer to constantly crank out content, but it removes the financial pressure off consumers. It's a win-win for everybody involved. Also note that, as I said in #9, there is NO law that says because you're a free2play or buy2play game that you have to svck or be pay2win. There absolutely no law that says that. If a game is free2play and is pay2win, it's because the developers CHOSE to make it that way. The model itself is not inherently biased either way. It is the sole responsibility of the developer to implement their systems in a fair and enjoyable way. That's a simple fundamental truth about any game development system.
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Chris Jones
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:52 pm

I had a wild idea if something similar to PayAsYouGo mobile deal except "PayAsYouPlay" where you pay for a week or a day or several hours, with monthy deals too ofc. Friendly for cassual players. But apart from that its not too good :P
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Mr. Ray
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:44 am

I had this conversation before.

I had to convince someone with number crunching & fan feedback to show them that if ESO has half of Skyrim's fan base (which it more than likely will) it will still be a success.

Some of those reasons are worth taking not of & have simple solutions like the first response for example.
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Amie Mccubbing
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:30 am

I beg of you, Zenimax: release a video or interview where Matt Firor or Paul Sage or somebody says something that may (if you read it a certain way) contradict something said by a dev earlier. I don't care what it is. Hell, you could even deliberately "mis-speak." Anything to get us onto some other so-called controversy so we can beat that horse to death and away from this "subs is the devil" trend we've been on. At this point, I don't care if the topic is pretty elves, or the lack of a butt adjusting slider.

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Big mike
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:49 pm

I don't see how they can backpedal at this point - nearly everyone is expecting them to do so... expecting it so much that I could see them sticking with the subscription model just to prove everyone wrong.

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emma sweeney
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:39 pm

What would you consider a successful run time for a subscription based MMO Domino? No game is ever going to run forever.

I would say if a game runs for 3 years and has 50% of it's launch day playerbase still playing, it was a success. No one can see the future, but what article of clothing would you eat if ESO was wildly successful after 3 full years having a subscription based business model?

Honestly it doesn't matter what business model ESO has, if the content and gameplay are rock solid, people will play. In the end it isn't the business model that will crush an MMO it is the content and the devs.

Take a look at Aion. it was a subscription based game at launch and it did really really well, but the devs waited nearly an entire year to release any new content, and that killed the game. Ever since it has been just coming and going in waves because the devs can't get their content out fast enough, and the players get bored and leave.

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Marlo Stanfield
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:51 pm

You lost me at number 1.

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Scared humanity
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:44 pm

Then it will fail and either shut down completely, or make the doom-preachers very happy by going f2p. All you have to do is wait for it.

Continually repeating why you don't think Zenimax is going to succeed doesn't do much besides get people to report you for trolling and flame-baiting. You aren't going to consider changing your opinion. The people who support the p2p system aren't going to change their minds.

Dead horse is dead and pounded darn near all the way to the earth's core at this point. Until or unless ESO fails, Zenimax isn't going to change their payment plan. Apparently they aren't jumping into this with their eyes closed.

Their website shows they aren't attempting this with two people and an Altair. go here http://jobs.zenimax.com/ and check the boxes for Zenimax Online studios and Zenimax in Ireland. Do they have enough people to keep up with their schedule for content? Who knows. If they do, then success. If they don't, then they fail. They are covered while they try.

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Amiee Kent
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:40 pm

Excellent, excellent post OP. Except for Number One. Zenimax is actually not small..

You completely explained all of the reasons in a detailed manner. Many of these I have thought about too.

How glorious it is that I can log into Guild Wars 2 anytime I want. Sometimes I take a week off or two, sometimes I don't. There are so many MMOs out there now that people need freedom, and don;t want to be tied down to $15 a month on top of what we assume with be a $60 box cost.

When you make an MMO these days you had better done proper research. I am not talking about hiring people, I am talking about going on boards and seeing what the public wants and already has too much of.

In a nutshell, if you make an MMO these days it better be sandbox style (Minecraft elements) or B2P or a good F2P model.

But don't make a theme park MMO AND charge monthly. has anyone learned anything?

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Jack Walker
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:48 pm

I really don't want Zenimax or anyone to fail. I love the Elder Scrolls.... A LOT actually

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Nicole Elocin
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:09 pm

Nope.

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Vicki Gunn
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:59 pm

What evidence do you have that they are even considering the possibility of backpedaling at any point? They have a business plan that you don't agree with. That doesn't mean they are wrong. Contrary to what you keep posting, they might not be aiming at getting 400 billion subs. They might be content with a successful game that has a sub. What would be the "better than break even" number? Presumably Zenimax knows. We may be able to find out someday.

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yermom
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:21 pm

I don't have any evidence of anything. I'm just saying probably wouldn't backpedal because everyone is expecting them to do that.

I could be wrong though. I could be wrong about everything... Heck I may be wrong about everything and then some. I just don't want to see ESO lose a huge chunk of its fanbase over this.

I want it to succeed and I want ESO to be the best most-inclusive game it can be.

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Chrissie Pillinger
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:33 pm

I last played Eve Online, a subscription MMO, in 2002. To this day I still get newsletters and updates and offers informing me that I can still jump in with my old character, all his stats equipment and money, and continue playing where I left off.

Now, obviously, by virtue of it being a subscription game, I have to pay again in order to play the game, but if I take some time off (or a decade or so,) it's at least been done before where your character and progress are saved.

... I think that's what you're getting at, at least.

Anyway, I don't have a horse in this race (just doing the routine "make sure no one's flaming in the subscription threads again" patrol.) It honestly doesn't matter to me which way Zenimax goes with this. Just throwing this out there though.

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Benito Martinez
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:19 am

But they would loose a huge chunk of fanbase if they used a F2P model as well. you can't please everyone. And right now they are going with what they believe will appease the most.

So I urge you to take the same stance as everyone else. Wait and see.

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Ria dell
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:53 pm

You do realize that no Zenimax ninja assassin squad is going to show up at your house when you get the game and force you to play every single day, right?

Yes, I know that some people are looking at this as "wasting" money if they don't play. This game might not be for those players then. I look at it as a service that I'm paying for access to; my choice to play or not, but I'm paying to have it available when I want it. I pay my cable subscription. There are days I don't touch the tv because I'm reading a book. Am I wasting my sub to my cable provider? I pay a sub for my internet. There are days I don't log on at all. Am I wasting my internet sub? I don't look at it that way. Is the service of ESO worth it? I don't know yet. There is also no Zenimax ninja assassin squad that will show up and force me to continue paying if I decide the content isn't worth it and I don't want to play anymore.

I know I won't play if I have to buy a mount, or keys for chests with real money. Or pay to get to the next area or next level. I've looked at GW2; it might be the be all and end all for some players, but I don't like it and wouldn't play it if someone gave it to me for free.

If there are alternatives that people think are doing the mmo thing better than ESO, then that might be the game for them to play. At this point, Zenimax isn't going to make a clone of GW2, no matter how much some people apparently want it. GW2 is GW2 and ESO is ESO; constantly repeating that they do this, that, or the other thing better than a game that hasn't released yet isn't going to make the devs or the publisher change their minds.

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alyssa ALYSSA
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:58 pm

1. How long has WoW been online? How much revenue have they pulled in over all of those years? Even if they lost every single subscriber 5 years ago they'd still be laughing all of the way to the bank. This point is moot.

2. This is completely an opinion. Casual players are usually casual because they have jobs. Because they have jobs they have no problem paying a subscription fee. hardcoe gamers are usually jobless, which is why they can "live" on a game. Yet they still manage to come up with a subscription fee. If subscriptions push away casual gamers, then who is playing and who has played WoW for the last decade? None of those players are causal? Most of them are not casual? Most of them ARE casual.

3. The sustainability of a game is not determined by it's pricing model. A good game is going to survive regardless of whether or not it has a month subscription fee.

4. This is true. But if you don't pay your cable bill you no longer have access to cable TV or the internet if they are your ISP as well. When you pay your bill you get those things back as if nothing ever happened, just like with a game.

5. This is another opinion. If you don't want a sub fee and a cash shop, then don't visit the cash shop. They developed the game so they can do as they wish and you can either like it or not.

6. There is no forced participation in a sub fee model either. You can download and play vanilla WoW right now without buying the expansions if you choose to do so. Most players will buy the xpacs though so you are better off getting them. But the same is true regardless of whether or not there is a sub fee.

7. In your eyes perhaps, this is another opinion. I do not share your opinion. I do not believe that a sub fee entitles me to anything other than what I already have. I do not pay my cable bill every month expecting to get more channels than I started with simply because I pay my bill.

8. Yet another opinion. How often does WoW justify it's sub fee? I can't recall ever seeing anything from them explaining why they charge a fee. Maybe they did publish something, but I never seen it and nor did I care to see it.

9. I agree with you there. I know a few games that are F2P and not P2W, but not many. Even GW2 is P2W since you can essentially buy gold with money.

10. I also agree with you there. But it's only negative because of people who want the world for free. I mean seriously... crying about a $15 per month fee to play a game. If you don't like the game then don't pay. If you do like the game then a low monthly fee is a small price to pay for happiness.

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Queen
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:16 pm

youre right its driving me away, i love these games but im not going to play everyday of the month just to get my moneys worth

they are treating this game like elitists will be playing this as their primary game everyday of their life for a year

thats not how this game is supposed to be in my opinion, i just want to buy a game and explore when i want and do cool quests\

this game would have so much more potential as a single player game, so much less limitiations

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James Rhead
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:48 am

In many ways, I don't think they had to ... simply because of the MMO landscape at the time.

I think times have changed a bit and companies have to justify their subscription fees much more than they did back in 2004.

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Averielle Garcia
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:40 pm

Who expects them to backpedal though? The only people I've seen mention it are the ones who are so adamantly against a p2p subscription plan. SARCASM/ Those people who don't want anything other than f2p or b2p wouldn't have any ulterior motives for wanting or wishing they would backpedal and change the sub system, now, would they? /sarcasm. I never had the expectation that Zenimax would change their plan. But then, I think p2p is a good idea, and I think they can make it work if they can keep the content high.

The most vocal people are the ones who post on websites and respond to polls. People who might be interested in the game but not particularly upset about having to pay for it with a sub aren't going to be ranting about it. They would see no reason to; if they want the game they'll pay the sub.

Zenimax doesn't make single player games. Bethesda does. You might love Elder Scrolls games, but those are single player. This is the first game Zenimax has made.
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GLOW...
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:02 am

A similar things where said about SWTOR & Star Trek and look how they panned out!

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louise hamilton
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:57 am

And do you seriously think that the sub model had anything to do with both those games tanking as hard as they did?

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YO MAma
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:18 am

Well Lotro & Swtor did bonce back up after going F2P

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Beulah Bell
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:56 pm

Which in no way answered my question.

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jessica breen
 
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Post » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:32 am

All I'm trying to say is lets not count chickens until they hatch

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Nathan Maughan
 
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