I beg of you, Zenimax: release a video or interview where Matt Firor or Paul Sage or somebody says something that may (if you read it a certain way) contradict something said by a dev earlier. I don't care what it is. Hell, you could even deliberately "mis-speak." Anything to get us onto some other so-called controversy so we can beat that horse to death and away from this "subs is the devil" trend we've been on. At this point, I don't care if the topic is pretty elves, or the lack of a butt adjusting slider.
I don't see how they can backpedal at this point - nearly everyone is expecting them to do so... expecting it so much that I could see them sticking with the subscription model just to prove everyone wrong.
What would you consider a successful run time for a subscription based MMO Domino? No game is ever going to run forever.
I would say if a game runs for 3 years and has 50% of it's launch day playerbase still playing, it was a success. No one can see the future, but what article of clothing would you eat if ESO was wildly successful after 3 full years having a subscription based business model?
Honestly it doesn't matter what business model ESO has, if the content and gameplay are rock solid, people will play. In the end it isn't the business model that will crush an MMO it is the content and the devs.
Take a look at Aion. it was a subscription based game at launch and it did really really well, but the devs waited nearly an entire year to release any new content, and that killed the game. Ever since it has been just coming and going in waves because the devs can't get their content out fast enough, and the players get bored and leave.
Then it will fail and either shut down completely, or make the doom-preachers very happy by going f2p. All you have to do is wait for it.
Continually repeating why you don't think Zenimax is going to succeed doesn't do much besides get people to report you for trolling and flame-baiting. You aren't going to consider changing your opinion. The people who support the p2p system aren't going to change their minds.
Dead horse is dead and pounded darn near all the way to the earth's core at this point. Until or unless ESO fails, Zenimax isn't going to change their payment plan. Apparently they aren't jumping into this with their eyes closed.
Their website shows they aren't attempting this with two people and an Altair. go here http://jobs.zenimax.com/ and check the boxes for Zenimax Online studios and Zenimax in Ireland. Do they have enough people to keep up with their schedule for content? Who knows. If they do, then success. If they don't, then they fail. They are covered while they try.
Excellent, excellent post OP. Except for Number One. Zenimax is actually not small..
You completely explained all of the reasons in a detailed manner. Many of these I have thought about too.
How glorious it is that I can log into Guild Wars 2 anytime I want. Sometimes I take a week off or two, sometimes I don't. There are so many MMOs out there now that people need freedom, and don;t want to be tied down to $15 a month on top of what we assume with be a $60 box cost.
When you make an MMO these days you had better done proper research. I am not talking about hiring people, I am talking about going on boards and seeing what the public wants and already has too much of.
In a nutshell, if you make an MMO these days it better be sandbox style (Minecraft elements) or B2P or a good F2P model.
But don't make a theme park MMO AND charge monthly. has anyone learned anything?
I really don't want Zenimax or anyone to fail. I love the Elder Scrolls.... A LOT actually
What evidence do you have that they are even considering the possibility of backpedaling at any point? They have a business plan that you don't agree with. That doesn't mean they are wrong. Contrary to what you keep posting, they might not be aiming at getting 400 billion subs. They might be content with a successful game that has a sub. What would be the "better than break even" number? Presumably Zenimax knows. We may be able to find out someday.
I don't have any evidence of anything. I'm just saying probably wouldn't backpedal because everyone is expecting them to do that.
I could be wrong though. I could be wrong about everything... Heck I may be wrong about everything and then some. I just don't want to see ESO lose a huge chunk of its fanbase over this.
I want it to succeed and I want ESO to be the best most-inclusive game it can be.
I last played Eve Online, a subscription MMO, in 2002. To this day I still get newsletters and updates and offers informing me that I can still jump in with my old character, all his stats equipment and money, and continue playing where I left off.
Now, obviously, by virtue of it being a subscription game, I have to pay again in order to play the game, but if I take some time off (or a decade or so,) it's at least been done before where your character and progress are saved.
... I think that's what you're getting at, at least.
Anyway, I don't have a horse in this race (just doing the routine "make sure no one's flaming in the subscription threads again" patrol.) It honestly doesn't matter to me which way Zenimax goes with this. Just throwing this out there though.
But they would loose a huge chunk of fanbase if they used a F2P model as well. you can't please everyone. And right now they are going with what they believe will appease the most.
So I urge you to take the same stance as everyone else. Wait and see.
You do realize that no Zenimax ninja assassin squad is going to show up at your house when you get the game and force you to play every single day, right?
Yes, I know that some people are looking at this as "wasting" money if they don't play. This game might not be for those players then. I look at it as a service that I'm paying for access to; my choice to play or not, but I'm paying to have it available when I want it. I pay my cable subscription. There are days I don't touch the tv because I'm reading a book. Am I wasting my sub to my cable provider? I pay a sub for my internet. There are days I don't log on at all. Am I wasting my internet sub? I don't look at it that way. Is the service of ESO worth it? I don't know yet. There is also no Zenimax ninja assassin squad that will show up and force me to continue paying if I decide the content isn't worth it and I don't want to play anymore.
I know I won't play if I have to buy a mount, or keys for chests with real money. Or pay to get to the next area or next level. I've looked at GW2; it might be the be all and end all for some players, but I don't like it and wouldn't play it if someone gave it to me for free.
If there are alternatives that people think are doing the mmo thing better than ESO, then that might be the game for them to play. At this point, Zenimax isn't going to make a clone of GW2, no matter how much some people apparently want it. GW2 is GW2 and ESO is ESO; constantly repeating that they do this, that, or the other thing better than a game that hasn't released yet isn't going to make the devs or the publisher change their minds.
1. How long has WoW been online? How much revenue have they pulled in over all of those years? Even if they lost every single subscriber 5 years ago they'd still be laughing all of the way to the bank. This point is moot.
2. This is completely an opinion. Casual players are usually casual because they have jobs. Because they have jobs they have no problem paying a subscription fee. hardcoe gamers are usually jobless, which is why they can "live" on a game. Yet they still manage to come up with a subscription fee. If subscriptions push away casual gamers, then who is playing and who has played WoW for the last decade? None of those players are causal? Most of them are not casual? Most of them ARE casual.
3. The sustainability of a game is not determined by it's pricing model. A good game is going to survive regardless of whether or not it has a month subscription fee.
4. This is true. But if you don't pay your cable bill you no longer have access to cable TV or the internet if they are your ISP as well. When you pay your bill you get those things back as if nothing ever happened, just like with a game.
5. This is another opinion. If you don't want a sub fee and a cash shop, then don't visit the cash shop. They developed the game so they can do as they wish and you can either like it or not.
6. There is no forced participation in a sub fee model either. You can download and play vanilla WoW right now without buying the expansions if you choose to do so. Most players will buy the xpacs though so you are better off getting them. But the same is true regardless of whether or not there is a sub fee.
7. In your eyes perhaps, this is another opinion. I do not share your opinion. I do not believe that a sub fee entitles me to anything other than what I already have. I do not pay my cable bill every month expecting to get more channels than I started with simply because I pay my bill.
8. Yet another opinion. How often does WoW justify it's sub fee? I can't recall ever seeing anything from them explaining why they charge a fee. Maybe they did publish something, but I never seen it and nor did I care to see it.
9. I agree with you there. I know a few games that are F2P and not P2W, but not many. Even GW2 is P2W since you can essentially buy gold with money.
10. I also agree with you there. But it's only negative because of people who want the world for free. I mean seriously... crying about a $15 per month fee to play a game. If you don't like the game then don't pay. If you do like the game then a low monthly fee is a small price to pay for happiness.
youre right its driving me away, i love these games but im not going to play everyday of the month just to get my moneys worth
they are treating this game like elitists will be playing this as their primary game everyday of their life for a year
thats not how this game is supposed to be in my opinion, i just want to buy a game and explore when i want and do cool quests\
this game would have so much more potential as a single player game, so much less limitiations
In many ways, I don't think they had to ... simply because of the MMO landscape at the time.
I think times have changed a bit and companies have to justify their subscription fees much more than they did back in 2004.
A similar things where said about SWTOR & Star Trek and look how they panned out!
And do you seriously think that the sub model had anything to do with both those games tanking as hard as they did?
Well Lotro & Swtor did bonce back up after going F2P
All I'm trying to say is lets not count chickens until they hatch