Could you do me the favor of providing some link(s) for the serious ones?

PM sent.

I've been bargaining for an alternative ending option for awhile(Joining the Dragon cult/Mythic Dawn/Enclave/etc.) I understand that they have a certain "canon" ending in mind for the plot. But I don't see any harm in creating an interesting alternative - non-canon/Book of Untold Legends - esque ending. Well, aside from devoting some extra resources... but Beth's making more money then ever now, so I do not want to hear their lazy excuses.

It would have been interesting to hear about Dagon ruling Tamriel - from an obscure book that does not exist(wink wink) found in the murky waters of Apocrypha perhaps? There are ways to make alternative ending work. Even Apocalyptic ones.

Yes. It is an important, and most often "over-looked" detail.

Let's first consider: Why do they hate Talos? It might have something to do with the fact that he isn't some benevolent being the Imperials and Nords want to believe. He committed atrocities that were justified by his "intentions" or "outcome." Regardless of which, is still a valid reason for the Thalmor to view him as a heresy. For 1,000 years they had to acknowledge their http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Lorkhan reborn(Talos) as not only residing in Aetherious with their ancestors... but Chief amongst them.

Now let's consider: Crystal-like-Law. This tower was pretty much THE Aldmer. Everything they stand for. Everything they accomplished. It is a beacon of enlightenment to them. This Tower kept the Altmer intact, and helped them persevere against the ever flowing change of Padhome.

The destruction of Crystal-Like-Law was pretty much the end of the line. It's like living in destitude, and then watching the one last thing keeping you hopeful, burned before your very eyes. While you stand there wanting to scream and do something to put out the fires. But you can't.

It was definitely the most tragic event for the Altmer - beginning with their forceful assimilation in a chaotic Human Empire forged on the blood of the Ayleids. The Thalmor to me are the face of a desperate race. On the verge of possible, slow, long-term path to extinction. Rather literal or "meta-physically"(Corrupted/Changed just like the fate of the Dunmer/Orsimer).

Yep, Hev pretty much answered for me.

Not only do they have to deal with Mankind(Tiber Septim/Talos specifically) but the one good thing about Mundus for them is pretty much gone now. I think all Merkind in general have it rough right now, not just those whose home/land has been destroyed. It actually makes for a pretty tragic RP when playing an Altmer Dragonborn.

*ponders the idea and plans to start a new game with an Altmer character*

Actually, the dialogue looks like something a dumb, drunk, ignorant child would generally utter. I certainly know that my Nords would not repeat the lines that are written on the screen.

Anyway, I am always to my own devices when it comes to the "dialogue" choices and thus, I say out loud what my characters would say in that situation. Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and The Witcher have spoiled me.

In conclusion, the adage "actions speak louder than words" certainly applies to RPing in Skyrim.

Hevnoraak, you really jump at those chances of promoting altmer values, huh? My desire to offer condolences does not equal the sharing of ideologies nor goals. I still favor Lorkhan and the ultimate beginning of a New Dream, fruit of a New Godhead.

PS: I feel it's necessary to add that the Tower was, in my headcanon, their mom as well.

I miss the intelligence-derived dialogue options already. It was lots of fun being a complete imbecile in fallout.

I find it amusing that the original religious beliefs of the Aldmer are more akin those of the Dunmer than they are to modern Altmeri belief.

To be honest, it's really g*****n hard to RP in skyrim. You rely 90% on imagination. We just have to make sure that Beth dosen't do the same thing with TES VI. Role Players unite!!! I was going to put "RPers unite!", but that's one letter away from "raqers" so I decided not to.

For some reason, this picture came to my mind when I read that

http://i.stack.imgur.com/n98Lh.jpg

That is the toughest one for me, personally. If I want a particular shout (If I am the Dragonborn), it is very hard for me to NOT run to that location and grab it.

As far Roleplaying goes, like they OP I come from a tabletop background (D&D, Traveler, Champions). My RP tends towards interaction with the NPCs. Skyrim is very lacking here. Even when the bandits curl up into a ball and say, "I yield!", there is no RP option. No matter what you do, the bandit will die. Maybe if you ran far enough away, they wouild not pursue once they heal up enough, I do not know.

The number of quests with choices is minimal, no different from any other computer game. The developers can do only so much. Most of the quest choices is do it or do not. That is not a choice. That is ignoring.

When my character just stands there when in a conversation with NPCs, it is tough to roleplay for me. The conversation choices are barely there, if at all. If there is a choice, it usually leads to the same outcome. All the responses lack any "character" for the player's part. They are very bland with no personality involved.

I do envy those players that can and do roleplay with nary a trouble. I think I am getting imaginationally (is that a word?) stunted in video games. It seems the more they visualize for me on the screen, the less my imagination kicks in. For a real challenge, try roleplaying a Paladin (or other lawful good type character). It is nigh impossible in Skyrim.

Skyrim does have choices galore in what you do (which quests to complete or not) and where you go (with heavy-handed hinting), but character-wise, it is not very good. The worst of the heavy-handed hinting is the Alik'r warriors in Whiterun. You WILL get the "find the Redguard woman" quest. They even followed me into the nearby armor shop (Warmaiden's) one time! If you miss Amren and his wife arguing, the conversation choice of "What were you arguing about?" makes little sense, yet it is always there.

There really is no game that I have found that comes close to nailing roleplaying. Skyrim, when compared to other computer games is not too bad. When compared to tabletop roleplaying, it leaves a lot to be desired. That is to be expected, as there is only so much a developer can pre-program into their games for character and NPC reactions and conversation choices.

Roleplaying in computer games have come to mean "you play the role of the main character." In that sense, Doom and Sonic the Hedgehog are role playing games.

It was probably my most favorite part of playing Fallout, especially after mostly playing the Elder Scrolls where attributes didn't matter much out of combat.

I stand corrected. My main character would definitely say all of those. In one sitting. Because he is enjoys making a mockery of talking doors.

He is quite mad you know.

I do a more general roleplay in what quests I do, how I fight, how I do quests given the option, etc. For example, my present character is a very Nordic Nord, who only uses Steel, Companions and Carved Nordic armor, only uses Battleaxes of the same materials or Wuuthrad, only does the Companions and main quest, fights purely with melee and doesn't sneak, etc. Whereas the next character I have planned, a devoted dragon hunter, will burn through the MQ as quickly as possible and kill dragons wherever given the option, pretty much ignoring the rest.

Its probably cause they played too much dragonage. I felt like that once. DAO had lots of dialogue options, you could really roleplay your character through dialogue down to the last word. Not in skyrim though. But skyrim does allow you to RP by imagining, which is something that not many games can do (due to their restrictions and un-sandbox world. E.g most games don't allow you to pick or throw anything anywhere.

Took me awhile, but im having quite a lot of fun RP-ing my evil character. Though im not sure if its really RP; i just tend to narrate what my character does, and how other NPCs view him. Im an evil assassin who happens to use illusion, so i do the invisibility + slit throat combo a lot. And i try to be invisible around NPCs as well, even when im just shopping.

E.g i was robbing Elisif's room when she suddenly came in did a quick invisibility and continued to loot the rest of her room without being noticed (holding down the invis key when im opening stuff like drawers). I also ran invisible past her when exiting, while opening and closing the door (and remaining invisible most of the time). So it made a pretty interesting narrative from Elisif's point of view ( the drawers are...opening? Wait, what was that gust of wind? Did that door just move? )

I look at it this way, their are different types of RP that people do. ( and call different things).

You CAN RP anything you want with the right mind set. Example... The episode of Big Bang Theory where Sheldon goes to a "med-evil" fair dressed in a Star Trek uniform. Totally out of place, context and unless you look at it the right way impossible to RP... the writers put it the right way.

Civil war reenactments... the south ain't gonna win no matter how much one might wanna role play it does. ( they don't do that...or at least the ones I've been to stuck to "reality")

Other types of "live" dress up, act it out RP, still have a set of rules that have to be followed and can be very jarring if you want to do something different. Not everyone can be High King... or Queen....even IF that's what you want to be.

I know mod's help out those on pc, I do everything in my head.... sure I try to stick to RP's that will fit the game, it makes sense to do so. IF I want to be a gun carrying solider of fortune, Skyrim is the wrong game to do that in....though shooting the bear's with an AK might be a little easier...lol I can however be a sword swinging mercenary, that fit's skyrim.

Even table top games have that same stricture... you couldn't really be a katana weilding ninja in D & D could you?..... or could you with the right mind set? ( and GM)

I had my tabletop session today, and this topic came to mind when I realized something: Even if you roleplay your hardest in Skyrim, you're still limited by one thing: Your imagination. When is a bunch of (kinda-crazy) players together, trust me on this, it goes beyond your individual imagination, for best and worst.

Well, to be fair, avoiding "metagaming" (your character acting on things you know, but he doesn't) is one of the hardest things to do in any kind of rpg, and you can only be sure you're doing it if you lose some benefit.

The perfect eletronic rpg for me would be Skyrim with the dialogue of Fallout 2. I wouldn't feel it lacks anything that way.

They mattered more, but it's been "streamlined" with each game.

1-You may be right.

2-Oh yes

3-Well, they're reenacting history, unless it's alternate history, it's their call, really.

4-Well, live-action rpg (I think it's called LARP) has different traits. As a rule of thumb, tabletop rpg becomes "harder" as the number of players increases beyond an optimal number (4-6). LARP, with dozens of people, needs different rules, I think.

5-I'm sorry, but...hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! See, I'm not laughing at you, but, the idea that one can't be a katana-welding ninja in D&D is funny to me! That's even a popular option! Every player that finds Ninjas badass must have been one at some point. Let's put it this way: you know those http://images.wikia.com/elderscrolls/images/archive/c/c7/20120512225740!Daedroth.png? Imagine one built like a boxer, but friendly. I was one of those. Tabletop has the liberty every fan of Imgas, akavir races, etc desires.

It's all in your head at what you do in the game. I make up dialogue as I go. I actually talk to the characters, and speak aloud my thoughts on what is going on. Basically I make my own commentary.

So you roleplay everyone? Ever tried to be a gamemaster, it's a necessary trait for one .

This is what I do too. Those of us who played Morrowind got used to making up our own dialogue. Morrowind's lack of player dialogue was one of the reasons why Morrowind was a supremely easy game for me to roleplay in.

I can't roleplay in a Bioware or Obsidian game. The dialogue Bioware and Obsidian writes rarely suits any of the characters I play. I am constantly forced to choose dialogue that has no connection to my character or my character's story and which, eventually, ruins my attempts to roleplay altogether.

The Elder Scrolls' sketchier dialogue options allows me to use my imagination to its fullest, which is what roleplaying is all about to me.

100% concur with your post. I am sure you have, but for others, compare the choices of dialogue options with FO3 and FO:NV. NV nailed it that if a PC lacks skill, there is a different dialogue, instead of the % success Beth uses (hope that made sense).

Since Morrowind there aren't any good conversations anymore.

Skyrim in particular is problematic since according to the replies I can make my character is either an idiot, or a very unpleasant person, or both at the same time.

So I just have my own conversations. :/

For instance, with Paarthurnax I talk a lot about the next kalpa and what will happen now that Alduin can't end this world as he was supposed to, instead of what the pre-set dialogue would have me say.

I've learned to hate that word so much.

Yes, I do this too.

I actually have several dialogues going on at the same time with different characters. I'm the type that likes to have his different characters "interact" with one another, so while in my mind there's a heated conversation going on between several people, the character I'm currently playing is just standing there staring blankly off into space or at an NPC. It sort-of helps to deal with the less favorable dialogue options. Like a character that normally wouldn't pick a certain choice would be influence by another to pick it because of reasons. It's...not perfect. Not at all. But having those little conversations helps getting over the fact that the game treats my character like a moron with a short attention span.

Not a problem, I just don't remember that being an option back in '84 in the D & D book that the guy's let me read to find a character for myself. Hey but that was a long time ago and evidently I'm wrong... guess I coulda come up with a better example.... cyborg? or do they allow that now?

I can show you rules, including prestige classes*, for both golem arms and mechanical/magitech prosthetics. In one setting, it's even desirable, because few can pay for the magic to regenerate an arm or leg. Hell, in the 90s, there was a local magazine that published rules for vampire implants, because they wouldn't have problems with rejection.

*In Skyrim terms, imagine entire perk trees based on it.

Man, let's make a game out of it: you try to come up with something, and if you find anything that I haven't seen, I...don't know, I have no idea what I could do for you from here.