Skyrim is the Hanzo sword of video games : V - Skyrim

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:39 pm

When I think open-world rpg, I imagine near endless possibilities of replay ability, something Skyrim most certainly lacks. To a further point, Skyrim is probably the least "open" of the TES series to date, what with abundance of two-option quests (the second option being ignoring the quest entierely).

Sure, it was fun for 5 months, and now I'm clammering back to older RPG's for that sake of importance and recognition that only RPG's have to offer. At some point, I have to ask myself "What are these games giving me that Skyrim does *not*?" and quite frankly, it's a unique playing experience with every new character I create.

I looked forward to this game for years, and while I respect that BGS has opted to turn the series in a new, different, more user-friendly direction, I cannot help but feel like I have been robbed of my own unique fascination with TES in general.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:26 pm

How about the Two Worlds games. I have not played the second one, but apparently it is kind of like Skyrim, open world and all,I think, maybe.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:53 am

How about the Two Worlds games. I have not played the second one, but apparently it is kind of like Skyrim, open world and all,I think, maybe.

Yes, they fall in the same category. On the back of the first TW box they wrote "Oblivion killer" or something :biggrin:

Although they do some skills better than Skyrim, the overall production value and quality is considerably lower.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:04 am

i think that bethesda makes the best RPG games ever, rockstar games makes the best open world games ever, naughty dog makes the best action games ever, kojima makes the best history driven games ever, etc, but yeah i think that bethesda makes the best RPGs ever, and i have been buying games from bethesda since fallout 3.

BUT GO CHECK OUT DRAGONS DOGMA. that game its so underrated, and LOOKS AMAZING!, ofcourse its not like skyrim but the fights and bosses looks AMAZING! and guess what its an RPG too! go check it out.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:29 am

No, Skyrim is not the Hanzo sword of gaming, there are plenty of non-bethesda games that are better than skyrim.

I believe that the OP was asking for examples.

If they simply mean better games in the RPG genre, then the list would be far too long. If they mean specifically open-world RPGs, then it's a very limited genre. Gothic 1 and 2 have reasonably open worlds and are light years better games.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:26 am

If they mean specifically open-world RPGs, then it's a very limited genre. Gothic 1 and 2 have reasonably open worlds and are light years better games.

I agree those two have better RPG mechanics than Skyrim, but they are as old as Morrowind (which btw blows them both out of the water RPG mechanics wise). If we're going so early in the 00's we'll compare different generations that were made for different markets. Let's compare Skyrim (11.11) with their spiritual successor Risen 2 (04.12) and see how they stand in the same generation.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:38 am

I agree those two have better RPG mechanics than Skyrim, but they are as old as Morrowind (which btw blows them both out of the water RPG mechanics wise). If we're going so early in the 00's we'll compare different generations that were made for different markets. Let's compare Skyrim (11.11) with their spiritual successor Risen 2 (04.12) and see how they stand in the same generation.

If the person is simply looking for better RPGs, it doesn't matter if those came out in earlier 00's.
Morrowind has character customization, which Gothic does not, but Gothic 1 and 2's quests, and their often having multiple ways to resolve them are much better than Morrowind's.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:40 am

I hate topics like this. They produce nothing. Why does one defend the status quo by articulating the status quo? Who gains any insight from it? Skyrim was just inches away from being the standard of all future RPGs, if they only hadn't done a few too many compromises in too important areas. Now it just stagnated into this exploration/fp swords and sorcery game, and I fear the mods are too late to fix this for the majority of the audience it reached.

It's really hard for me to understand this fear for criticism. It feels like some players get so clouded by their emotional- (pre-release hype), time- or money investment that they cannot look at the game from a neutral stance and contribute creatively. The game simply cannot fail at any areas or it challenges their judgement as consumers and individuals. Or something silly like that. (;

Truth is that Skyrim is a GREAT game and has a huge pool of passionate players who want to contribute their thoughts on how to go that extra mile, making the game from great to an earthbreaking success. This passion can sometimes exhibit itself as angry and bitter rants, inspirational shouts or just generally neutral wall of text. The developers are big boys and can take criticism, they don't need you defending them!

And yes, we compare Skyrim to everything that has ever been released under the RPG category, including previous TES games that advertise themselves as RPGs. And it's weaker in almost every immersive RPG aspect/standard set by much older games.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:30 am

Well Skyrim depends way too much on player imagination. Game has a lot of "themed" quests like daedra, mage's guild, companions they're just too short to keep on role playing a class. Also they ignore your skills. Being the arc mage with 15 destruction simply lame. Morrowind had it right in theory and guilds were a good way to rp your class and morality.

Oblivion and then Skyrim simply ignored this consept in the name of freedom. It's too hard to make a game of this size that recognizes your class, race (etc) at every turn but guilds are safe spots; put 2-3 choices there then one can easly rp a specific class. Then make the main quest recognize your guild status during some dialogs and that's it. Skyrim guilds just unlocks new dungeons and there is just tooooo many dungeons already.

Still i believe developers already knew this but they simply didn't add it to the game as they run out of time. Main Quest recognizes your guild status for once and side quests of the guilds are somehow reminds me Morrowind but they simply few and unpolished( just like vampirism: there were going to be 6 stages of vampirism with lot of powers that resemble the powers of Volkihar[they're in the game files])

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:43 am

BUT GO CHECK OUT DRAGONS DOGMA. that game its so underrated, and LOOKS AMAZING!, ofcourse its not like skyrim but the fights and bosses looks AMAZING! and guess what its an RPG too! go check it out.

Hi there Chriss0906! Hope you-re doing great.

I just checked Dragons Dogma. RPG, Check. Open World, Check. It does look great! Nightime is actually dark. You can levitate. You can climb.
Wow, I just might actually play this one. Kudos for sharing!

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:42 am

Skyrim is a mile wide, but an inch deep.

The biggest story immersion killer is the lack of reactivity, and the linearity (at least there's no illusion of choice such as Bioware games have). You can be an archmage, and people will still tell you to go to Winterhold to learn spells. You can be the leader of the Companions and people will ask you if you polish their swords.
In fact, it's unavoidable that you'll be named leader of the factions once you do certain quests.

You can be a werewolf, and only one person in the entire game will comment on it, and similarly with being a vampire - only one person will ever mention it.

Every dungeon puzzle ceases to be a puzzle after you've been through Bleakfall Barrows - they're just doorknobs that takes slightly longer to open.

I can't think of any quest outcome that ties into another quest. For example, you can kill a very important imperial figure, and it'll be business as usual if you side with the Empire in the civil war questline. However, that important person will still show up if you helped the Stormcloaks win, and thereby turning Skyrim into an extremely anti-imperial province.

Mile wide, inch deep.

Better RPGs:

Alpha Protocol. Even if you're forced to play Mike Thorton, you can still decide his personality. Every choice you make matters, everything is interconnected, and it's nearly impossible to play the same game twice. Not to mention that you'll need to play it through several times just to learn what the deeper plot is.

Fallout: New Vegas. Your choices have consequences, which will change the desert (more than just changing the skin on the guards). Immensly well written followers, quests and DLCs. Small details, like finding out where the NCR gets their conrete and food from, makes it very immersive. Also, no radiant quests.

I really hope that the Skyrim DLCs will be really well made, rather than being more themeparks set in a sandbox.

Hi there Fleapants. Great to see you're around.

I think you nailed it. Those examples are terrific, in a bad way. Skyrim is a good game, but hardly an organic gaming experience.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:37 pm

The term RPG is not as difinitive as the term FPS or Beat-em-up etc. You can choose NOT to role play in Skyrim if you don't want to which makes it stronger than other RPG's that are too bogged down with being an RPG than actually being grounbreaking.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:14 am

The term RPG is not as difinitive as the term FPS or Beat-em-up etc. You can choose NOT to role play in Skyrim if you don't want to which makes it stronger than other RPG's that are too bogged down with being an RPG than actually being grounbreaking.

RPG video games are far more well known as being "stat heavy" than being a game where you can "role play."

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:22 pm

i say its rpg. secretly i only see rpg and am like ok so swords armor and fighting goblins that sounds good... diablo is an rpg for me

also can i just say [censored] baldurs gate icewind dale dragon age and whatever other [censored] games are made off that stupid board game model with dice deciding what happens. why not just go the full step and play at a table with other humans? click...oh cool my guy is attacking something...wish i could see what he looked like from 100 ft above him... oh [censored] heres another goblin timefreeze.....*MAKES CHOICES for 10 minutes* unfreeze time cast magic missles [censored] oh yeah i can only do that like once a day *rest*

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:08 am

i say its rpg. secretly i only see rpg and am like ok so swords armor and fighting goblins that sounds good... diablo is an rpg for me

also can i just say [censored] baldurs gate icewind dale dragon age and whatever other [censored] games are made off that stupid board game model with dice deciding what happens. why not just go the full step and play at a table with other humans? click...oh cool my guy is attacking something...wish i could see what he looked like from 100 ft above him... oh [censored] heres another goblin timefreeze.....*MAKES CHOICES for 10 minutes* unfreeze time cast magic missles [censored] oh yeah i can only do that like once a day *rest*

Stupid board game model... grandfather of The Elder Scrolls...

SMDH.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:19 am

Witcher 2.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:20 am

Witcher 2.

Let's just keep listing games that aren't open-world. This is fun!

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:55 pm

Let's just keep listing games that aren't open-world. This is fun!

Yay! I can travel 1,000 miles... but I don't leave any footprints behind me, awesome.

"Open world" isn't just limited to how far you can travel.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:08 am

Let's just keep listing games that aren't open-world. This is fun!

Isnt the Witcher 2 open world? The first one certainly was.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:32 pm

Isnt the Witcher 2 open world? The first one certainly was.

No it's linear, but your choices matter.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:08 am

No it's linear, but your choices matter.

Again, it's important that the OP was asking for comparisons of other open-world games, because an open world almost always negates any real consequences from your actions. In a linear game, you can destroy whole cities, because once the event's occurred, there's no need for the developers to worry about what happens if X city is destroyed while Y quest is still active. Linear games naturally allow for more consequences because the flow of the story is heavily controlled.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:38 am

X3: Albion Prelude.

(Technically that's open-universe I suppose)

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:18 pm

X3: Albion Prelude.

(Technically that's open-universe I suppose)

I haven't even heard of this series. It looks intriguing though. Is it at all like Freelancer?

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:54 pm

I haven't even heard of this series. It looks intriguing though. Is it at all like Freelancer?

Somewhat, yes. Though it focuses more on economy than fighting (or atleast Reunion and Terran Conflict do). I set up mines and automated trading ships for propably 40 hours before i could afford my first Corvette :hehe:

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:52 am

In some ways.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p73C60btBi8 gives you a good overview and is a pretty good tutorial too. It's a bit more complicated than Freelancer.