ok but even through reading books and doing certain quests in the game you find out that the Snow Elves DEVOLVED into what they are now, the falmer are simply a shadow of there former selves. Thanks in part to both the nords and the dwemer, now there is nothing that says that there couldnt possibly be a little pocket like lets say a handful that escaped into the hills somewhere never to be seen again, but yet still thriving just staying hidden from the rest of the world. but yes evolution or in this case devolution actually does take place in both TES and its done in a way that keeps with TES lore

Maybe the Falmer killed and ate all of her clerics who tried?

I wondered the same thing. Mara considers them gone, 'gone altogether and forever' iirc. So maybe she, too, feels like the race that was known as the Snow Elves (I think they were called Ice Elves in that particular book) has ceased to exist, and been replaced by something else. Perhaps the Falmer are so far gone that help is no longer possible?

My take on this is that a group of snow elfs became seperated (read enslaved) and isolated from the maiin population. As in nature the two groups divirged and took different evolutionary paths.

The falmer lost their eyes, the mushrooms took their sight, their bodies evolved to the skin covered sockets. The caves lacked sunlight so the skin pales. The warmer environment shrank the nose. With no sight, the ears changed to pick up sound. Claws? The better to fight and tunnel with.

Id have no problem if snow elves show up in dlc.

Nirn has hyper-fast evolution.

The world was created several thousand years ago, and the only species of elf was the Aldmer. Now look how many we've got.

Native Americans of 500 years ago are the same as they are now, aside from interbreeding with the invading Europeans (Which the Falmer are not known to have done).

The same Apache that we adopted knife fighting for use in special forces are now running casinos on reservations and clearly not knife fighting anymore.

They changed their lifestyle to fit their predicament. They adapted.

The Snow Elves and the Falmer are the same thing ('Fal' means 'snow' in the Merethic languages and 'mer' means 'elves' or 'the people' I think). They are the same species, just adapted to survive in their definitely temporary lifestyle. The Falmer are cruel slavers, just as they were above ground. They are now simply blind.

These differences MAY be due to genetic influence, but never is it hinted that Nirn follows the laws of our universe or that genes exist.

I agree that the name variations between the "civilized" Mer vs the "underground freaks" is a useful distinction, but it certainly doesn't mean that they are two completely different species. The interchangeability between the two names throughout lore is the only evidence that points in any direction, and it points at them being the same species.

Since they are the same species, most definitely. If they were a different race, still, the answer is a yes. Mer can interbreed with Man, which are completely different.

Well, mer = folk, and even then that's a rough translations of the word "mer" in TES canon. Also, notice that men are never referred to as "mer" or "folk" because the elves refuse to associate with mankind as they followed the space god Lorkhan/Shezarr/Shor, even though all mer, men, and most of any race are linked to a common ancestor (Ehlnofey). The only race known so far that wasn't from the Ehlnofey line are the Argonians, who are linked with the Hist, who are also not part of the Ehlnofey (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/annotated-anuad, and dialog from Redguard).

So, in reality, the mer are named thusly:
Orsimer = Pariah Folk
Dunmer = Dark/Cursed Folk
Chimer = Changed Folk (changed, as in ways of thinking)
Falmer = Snow Folk
Bosmer = Forest Folk
Altmer = High Folk
Dwemer = Deep (as in thinking) Folk
Aldmer = No idea what Ald means

The names of mer are more metaphorical than literal, btw.

If im not mistaken, don't bretons have like a hint of altmer blood in them? im pretty sure that i read that in the wiki so this backs your statement up

Hellmouth, I don't think the Khajiit nor the Redguards have been confirmed as descended from the Ehlnofey.

Yes, the Bretons are a cross between Aldmer and the Nedic people of Atmora, who eventually became the Nords

Bretons are the result of High Rock Nedes (proto-Tamriel humans) breeding with Aldmer (proto-mer). But it wasn't a first or second generation thing, but 100s and 1000s of semi-isolation.

In fact, when the nords first arrived in High Rock, the bretons looked very much merrish, the nords couldn't tell the difference.

Annotated Anuad, and Clan Mother, Daryn. That's what's in lore now, and there has yet to be anything to contradict it. Plus, the fact that Redguards/Yokudans can breed with everyone else, save for maybe Argonians, is also evidence.

I was just using them as an example that since Mer and Man could breed at all then the 1st era Falmer and 4th era Falmer could definitely breed

EDIT: And I remember reading that Barenziah, who is a Dunmer, was impregnated by Tiber Septim (a Nord) and a Khajiit lover of hers.
Tiber told his mage to kill his unborn son so it wouldn't threaten his human line though and idk what happened to her Khajiit baby.

Each of those two lines deviate far from the original Ehlnofey (If Khajiit stem from them at all) without taking into account that Dunmer were changed unnaturally.

but i wonder, if the past and present falmer were to breed, how would that turn out? like partially blind maybe slightly more civil but still always pissed off race of mer?

Likely, the falmer have been degenerated to the point where only the fugly thing seen is what would be the result. This, of course, assumes there is a man/mer who got really drunk/high, and happened to find a female falmer. The other way around would be the man/mer and not a falmer.

This is incorrect, you can't pass on acquired characteristics, it must be that the snow elves with bad/no eyesight survived and the ones with good eyesight didn't, over time they evolved to be blind.

Just eating something that makes you blind doesn't alter your genes, the ones with bad eyesight survived and passed on their genetic material. But then again, this isn't earth, who knows.

Well it's unlikely they could produce fertile offspring, or even produce offspring at all. Over the thousands of years that the falmer evolved, to much variation has occurred for them to be classed as the same species.

The falmer = snow elves isn't correct, the falmer have evolved from the snow elves over thousands of years.

At some point some sort of selection pressure was forced on the snow elves, the ones with bad/no eyesight survived and the ones with good eyesight didn't, thus the falmer speciated from the snow elves (given that falmer are a different species, which is a logical assumption).

actually bob yes what i said IS correct, maybe you should pay more attention because IN the game it is said specifically that the dwemer forced all the enslaved falmer to eat fungi that would make the ones that eat it go blind AND also make the offspring of them go blind. Please try to remember that this is a GAME and that the laws of science that apply to REALITY don't always crossover.

Edit - Sorry if I sounded like a [censored], but when I'm right and I know I'm right, I don't like being told I'm wrong.


Edit - Also I do have to say that you have changed my view point to an extent however with considering that past and present Falmer probably wouldn't be able to breed because atleast in our reality I do know that there are several cases of animals and insects that have evolved and changed overtime thus creating new breeds or species. I would like to comment though by saying that if that were the case then I would still have to consider the 2 to be very close together in the family tree so to speak. Kinda like half-siblings in a sense.

Eh...now that's interesting! Where can I find this bit of information? Do you remember the book? Or is it an NPC who tells us about the Falmer being cruel slavers?

Though I cant remember reading about any books or hearing from any NPCs about Falmer from the old times being cruel slavers, I can say that I have seen for myself proof that the Falmer of the current era keeping slaves from members of the other races. If you have not experienced this then

You sir, are an ignorant descendent of Nede, who need to learn to speak Tamrielic language.

What you are saying is like saying that Altmers are not High Elves, Bosmers are not Wood Elves, Dunmers are not Dark elves and Dwemers are not dwarves. Snow Elf is a term used by the Imperials to describe Falmers, just like elf is a connotation used by the Imperials to describe the mer races. Snow elves themselves would call them selves 'Falmers' as would any other mer races in the game.

Haha, yeah I've met their other 'friends' , we got along splendidly until they became a little too forceful in their 'advances'. =)

What Daryn Mercio posted, simply struck me as kind of ironic - the slavers enslaved by another race? Assuming of course, that it is true and not just a personal opinion based on what little info we have.

Mer are known to have had slaves for some reason, while no one else really is.

OK, everyone - there's no need to actually get upset about it.

It's clear from the above discussion that the Falmer we see in the current skyrim are different from the snow elves of thousands of years before, and permanently so. Thus, if snow elves do make an appearance in the DLC, they'll be.........snow elves, and not blind freaks crawling around dwemer ruins and various caves, consorting with extremely vile insects and giving everyone the creeps.

What's really important is that the DLC get released ASAP, and that it be tons of fun.

omg... The level of blind ignorance in this thread is astounding. Even when it's pointed out in no uncertain terms the facts are still completely glossed over...

point it out then, man! The ignorance that you are wanting to highlight won't be known till you address what's wrong.