iam a morrowind player and dont like the way the series developed after morrowind.
but skyrims atmosphere in sound/graphic and worlddesign is so awesome that i realy love to play it, even if its gameplay can not be compared to bethesdas masterpiece.

i wanted to hear from you skilled modders out there if something like my following suggestions could be done when we get the construction set:


no more fast travel
removing the fast travel would be awesome, now that there are carriages there is no reason to keep it (for an morrowind player at least)

bring back minor/major skills
i want to have a specialised character and dont want to change my class during gameplay, also this would help to avoid accidental level ups.

bring back the attributes
that new system isnt working at all for specialised characters, for my archer i only level HP wtf is this?

hit chance/miss
i dont want to hit with every strike when iam not skilled with weapons

no health regen
it can be done via console, but it breaks the regeneration potions

remove compass
it can be done via ini, but the shouting bar looks misplaced then

faction restrictions
no warrior should be able to join mages guild

need to repair gear
for obvious reasons + smithing skill gets additional use. NPC smiths should repair too.

chances of fail for enchant & alchemy
to avoid it to be used by every char. seriously i just cant stop myself from using it even if i dont want to.

chances of fail for magic
to stop me from using this damn healing spell that i have from start!

starting spells only for mages
do it same way like in MW - only major skills provide starting spells. get rid of that damn healing spell!

bring back all the other missing skills/spells/features that where left out scince morrowind
just joking i know that this aint possible ... unfortunately


this is no complaint i just wanted to ask you guys if things like these are possible.

anyways iam enjoying skyrim VERY much (couldnt say that for oblivion) but this game is an action adventure and no rpg; and no way it is a worth follower of the holy grale of gaming "MORRWIND".

In short, if it was possible to fix in Oblivion, it will still be possible. The "creation engine" is just a modified version of the Fallout engine, which is just a modified version of the Oblivion engine. Many of us would be absolutely shocked if there were any fundamental changes (for the better) in what we can alter, and how we can alter it. Opinions from veterans of the TES series assume that we'll be working with what we're used to. If that's not the case, then all bets are off.

In detail:
no more fast travel
Isn't there an ini or command that disables this anyway? I never looked into the Ob/FO fixes for this since it's not a feature that's forced on you.

bring back minor/major skills
I doubt that this is possible, at least not how you want it. A menu could be added to select skills, which you would receive a boost in, but limiting which skills level you up will probably be out of our hands.

bring back the attributes
Same as above.

hit chance/miss
Was this possible in Oblivion? I enjoy the combat upgrades to the system so I never sought it out.

no health regen
If you use the command player.modav it shouldn't mess up anything in the game. forceav and setav will have issue though. In any case, this should be an easy mod.

remove compass
This will take some work with the menus, which is currently being worked on to fix the incredibly terrible ui design (by PC standards.)

faction restrictions
This could probably be added it, depending on how complicated the scripting is for the factions. It would just be a check on the relevant skills.

need to repair gear
If this is a leftover feature from Fallout/Oblivion then it could be added it, and all Skyrim's weapons/armors are just set to not degrade. If it's been disabled or borked, then don't count on it.

chances of fail for enchant & alchemy
Depending on how the scripting is done for the tables, possibly. I wouldn't hold my breath though, as it seems to be just a check on ingredients.

chances of fail for magic
Again, if it's a leftover feature then you may be in luck. If all of the spells in Skyrim are just set at 100% chance then maybe, but we'll have to wait and see.

starting spells only for mages
You'd have to change the starting scenario, or wait for an alternate start mod.

Sorry dude, Skyrim beats Morrowind in almost every possible way, from an objective POV, except the "classic" bonus. And spears, and I personally never liked them.
Don′t get me wrong, but you are comparing mindlessy.
You should look up the definition of RPG and Action Adventure as well.

Fast Travel:
Skyrim is about a dragonillion times bigger than morrowind, there are people who NEED fast travel.
because, you know, there aren′t carriages everywhere.
It is a good system in which you have to discover places before and it makes perfect sense.
Everyone who NEVER wants to fast travel (like me), disable it via mod.

Major/minor skills: BS, Skyrim rewards playing your style more than MW ever did. In Morrowind, you set up your skills and then fought accordingly or failed. In Situations where you needed to fight otherwise, you failed. Now you can see how the game develops and get into every playstyle to find out which suits you best. You are given the total freedom of playing just the way you want and your skills in that particular playstyle level up faster. WHAT DO YOU WANT MORE?
You want the game to PREVENT you from leveling up because you gained experience in something that you didn′t choose at the beginning? That′s not just unrealistic, that′s plain dumb, imho.

Remove compass: Dude. Bethesda did a super-speedrun for the Main quest, where they just rushed off through everything, doing nothing but the neccessary, using tricks that normal players don′t know. It took them around 2-3 hours. The Morrowind-Speedrun didn′t take 5 minutes.
This game is HUGE, how in Akatosh′s name would you even find a place that you never visited before without the compass?
This features takes NOTHING, but absolutely NOTHING from the game experience, and I seriously don′t understand people who think the obvious flaw of Morrowind not having one is something good.

Chance to hit: Now you′re getting ridiculous. It was the worst part of morrowind standing right in front of someone and not hitting him with my SWORD.
It is plain unrealistic. You DO hit people with a sword. You miss with arrows, and it′s perfect that way.

Faction restriction: if you join the mage guild, you′r a mage, As simple as that. If you aren′t, you don′t get anything done for them and they don′t accept you.

Fail@enchanting/alchemy: Fair enough, could be implemented as a mod. Not neccessary though, if you don′t want to enchant, don′t do it. If you are to weak-minded to prevent yourself from doing so, trash all your ingredients and soul gems.

Fail@Magic: Redundant, if you don′t invest in restoration your healing spell is weak as a mudcrab. Even if it failed from time to time, you would still be able to use it on the next try.


Starting spells only for mages: Again, there are people who want to play monks, and priests, and assassins using magic, and a godzillion other playstyles. This is one of the best things in Skyrim: You can be whoever YOU want to be. That′s what makes it even more of a RPG than Morrowind.
You starting spells are useful for about the first 2 hours of the game. Then you have to invest perks into them to make them playable. I use my fire-spell only on wolves and weak bandits, and that′s double-handed and with 3 perks on it.

bring back all the other missing skills/spells/features that where left out scince morrowind: Skyrim has more of them than Morrowind.

Let me tell you one thing, that probably brings it on the point: A mixed character in Skyrim will svck. I tried it and failed miserably. If you don′t specialise, the game will be HARD. You just have infinite ways to do so.

After all, you want the game′s Options to be LIMITED, and the freedom of choice to be CUT, to force the player into a pre-defined playstyle by the developers, instead of allowing unique playstyles and character development. (Check out the playstyles thread in here, it′s huge)
That′s jsut ridiculous, in my humble opinion. These are exactly the things that MAKE Skyrim the holy grail of gaming it is.
And to speak of "casual gameplay" makes no sense whatsoever. Trolls and idiots all around are saying that to sound like "retro hardcoe RPG-ers" but most of them have no idea what they even mean.
I don′t think you are stupid or a troll, so think about what you are saying: Skyrim features more content than Morrowind, offers more freedom, demands intelligent choices and a well-thought character development and features everything good from the RPG-genre. You have to use all your skills to deal with certain enemies, and with fast travel or noteven if you fast travel all day long, there is more exploration in it than in all previous ES-games combined. It is IN NO WAY, a casual playstyle.



If you want to play Morrowind, go play Morrowind. I can understand your fandom for Morrowind, I loved it, too, with all it′s flaws.
But don′t complain about Skyrim not being Morrowind, because there will most probably not be any other game that is exactly like Morrowind.

Sorry dude, but your opinion on what beats what doesn't make it objective.


I will still reinstall and play Morrowind again, I'm not sure if I can say that about Skyrim yet. Is it a great game? Yes (minus the menu.) Do I enjoy it as much as I enjoy (not past tense) playing Morrowind? No. Time will tell what is "best", but it's always going to be an opinion, never objective. No need to berate him on his preferences. He asked if those things are possible, not why they should or shouldn't be. Senseless arguing is just trolling, which isn't allowed here.

The 5 minute argument is a little flawed: That uses the backdoor that was put into the game as a bit of a "Guide Dang It" if you accidentally break the main quest by killing someone important. If you actually do the main quest it'll take a bit longer ;P

The Major/Minor thing probably can stay gone, but I'd like to see some kind of class system. At least being able to pick starting skills and having them start off better but all other skills start worse. Probably gonna do a mod for this actually when the CK is released...

Hmm, if you could remove the compass itself but leave the markers on the map, that'd probably work quite well. After all, when you're in the "approximate" area you can use clairvoyance to get more accurate a location.

You are right, the argument is weak, but the fact remains: Skyrim features most contenct of all elder scrolls games.
I see how you people would like classes to improve certain skills, but I also understand how many people don′t want to be put into set characters.
May I productively contribute to the thread:
How about you simply mod it to start at level 5? You′ll be able to select the initial skills of your preferred classes trees, and therefore an advantage in later improvements of these skills.
Of course that makes the game rather easy for the first few hours, but you could set the difficulty up until you reach level 10 or so.
As for the compass "problem", I think Skyrim solved this by itself: The world is so vertical that it′s usually impossible to follow the compass straight-on. And if you do so, you run into the strong enemies that lurk in the mountains. I ahrdly use the compass myself, I usually explore until I run into the place i seek by accident, then complete the quest.

Maybe I sounded a bit raging in my post, don′t get me wrong, I REALLY appreciated Morrowind, but I just don′t like that overdone Morrowind-Fandom explaining how Morrowind is the perfect game and every change from it is a way into dumbed-down casual playing. It′s not.

My first game was Morrowind so I know what you're talking about, but I disagree about the gameplay for Skyrim. Because Todd Howard said earlier this year that Bethesda did a mistake with Oblivion, which cost the atmospheric depth that was in Morrowind. In Skyrim I sense some depth in-game, but not the depth that Morrowind has. On the other hand Skyrim has something else that Morrowind doesn't have (even with Bloodmoon) and that's the mythical depth with barrows, caves, different ruins etc and of course the dragons.

The fast travel is removed if you have more stuff than you can carry and you can still walk even with encumbrance, but if you really want to fast travel you must use the "tgm" command in the console.

In case you didn't know that Skyrim does have attributes, but not like what we are used to. When level up you need to select either Magicka/Health/Stamina to continue and so far I know that stamina increase your carrying capacity, but I don't know yet what Magicka or Health does to the attributes.

I don't see the reason why there is gonna be a need for repair tools for your gear in Skyrim since there is other things (chopping woods, cooking food, some mining, forge a weapon or a piece of armor), we can do now in-game.

You still can fail to cast a spell if your stamina is to low, because if you do your stamina just prevent you to cast a spell.

ok some of my statements where a little bit provocative for non morrowind players, but thankfully Kodiak888 got my point and i appreciate your detailed answer very much! guess i have to wait for the construction set realease then.

@Epic dragon of epicness: i have a consumed little bit to much beer by now to answer to your offending post properly ... but in short: i realy dont agree with you ... at all!
if you dont understand how many skills and especialy spells are removed from the elder scrolls series scince morrowind: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Skills and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Spell_Effects

you guys mentioned that its possible to disable fast travel via ini hack? please tell me how, as i cant find anything on google. thx!


edit: Kodiak888 even with "player.modav ..." to disable health regen, the health regeneration potions and food have no effect any longer (the potions that restore health over time).

I opened that link. Then I opened the according Skyrim pages. About equal amount of spells.
And the Skyrim lists are nowhere enar complete.

All I want to say is: I cannot, for the life of me, understand how anyone could actually want some of those features added/removed, and still be able to enjoy a game like this afterwards...

Fast travel may not be an ini tweak, I just had a vague memory of setting a value to 0. Again, I ignore the "beam me up" fast traveling 99% of the time, so I never sought a mod to correct the issue.


As for the healing, you'll just have to wait for the CK then. Do the items scale with your healrate? If you set your healrate to something low, but not zero, it may help. I'm not sure how many integers the game will accept. However, if the non-functioning items (a guess) might work off a percentage, adding 25% to your heal rate or so. If your healrate is .001, then a 25% boost won't help very much either. I haven't looked into any of this, it's all just conjecture.

...so basically you want to bring back everything that made Morrowind tedious and unbalanced.

Why on earth would you want to do this?!

i know that iam part of a minority with my opintion.

i didnt wanted to start a discussion about it here, i wanted to ask for some mods to suit my needs.
if i wanted to discuss why morrowind is, and always will be, superior over oblvion/skyrim in what it does, i had started a thread on the general forums.

for the record: i love skyrim! its atmosphere has svcked me in from the very first seconds of the intro sequence (god the first music track in the carriage made my pants wet) and the world is better than anything we have seen before.

it is just not comparable to my good old morrowind in many aspects, wich is a fact and not just stupid thoughts of an old MW-fan.
things you call "tedious" or "annoying" like not hitting where your cursor points are essential elements that make adventures to rpgs in my opinion - its about the skill of the character and not the skill of the player.

now leave me alone with my beer you damn casual gaming kids

Open up the console and type enablefasttravel 0

As far as factions in Morrowind?

I belonged to the Thieves Guild, the FIghter's Guild and the Mages Guild and the Morag Tong
There was only one guild you couldn't be a master of because you had to kill someone in the guild in order to become a master in a different guild.

Actually you can be the master in all of the guilds in vanilla, sans the great houses obviously. You just have to play the political games correctly. 8) - And you could join any house plus Hlaalu, but that was due to a bug.


But the issue is not that you can join any faction, it's that you can join any faction without any sort of skill that is beneficial to that faction. In Morrowind, you couldn't advance up the ranks of any guild without having your skills at an appropriate level. If all of your magic skills were low leveled, the mage quest givers would tell you to go practice. Why would any guild allow someone with no relevant skill sets to rise to the top?

wow thank you sooo much! its indeed working, even on load/save!

as Kodiak888 already stated you can not advance in rank without the proper skills in guilds/houses, but i even use the fantastic mod "service restrictions" wich doesnt even allow you to join guilds you dont have the skills for.

but i seriously should stop posting now ... five bottles of german beer screw with my english skills big time.

You're Welcome

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=285
http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=391

Can't say whether they work together though...

yeah thank you occams razor, but i got rid of the whole compas via ini hack as i find it way to large and disturbing.

btw if your nick is dedicated to the awesome band i have to raise my hat to you!

Why shouldn't Warriors be able to join the Mages' Guild? They were allowed in Morrowind, and besides, Tamriel's history is full of famous & powerful Battlemages.

All of those things are possible. Once you realize how complex some of the Oblivion mods are, and how so many things which were initially "impossible" were done via OBSE and the such, you begin to realize that there are few things modders can't do if they're motivated to do so.

i have the best hack for fast travel.... don't use it. just because it is there doesn't mean you have to use it. i my self like to walk/ride everywhere and i just don't use it. but then there are times where i just don't want to because of time restraints so i use fast travel. i don't even see why fast travel will be an issue as it was always an optional part of the game since oblivion which a player doesn't have to use.

back on the op
i can understand degradation. that is something that is missing. but im sure that can be modded back in. essentially there isnt many ways to level smithing besides mindlessly making objects over and over. so this would be a nice way to up the skill in progressive way over the collect/buy mats then craft 50 iron daggers then sell for a 10 level or so jump in the skill.


hit chance/miss is unrealistic. what should be in place is a hit type e.g. glancing etc which modifies the damage done to the person being hit.


no health regen not a fan how much health regens in skyrim. i hope with the kit we can turn it down to minimal so it doesn't affect potions and maybe use the current regen on vampires during the night.

with the compass what you want to do is remove the objects in the compass not actually remove the compass. earth has had compasses since 1BC (magnetic compasses) so why on nirn wouldn't an adventurer in skyrim have one.

chances of fail for enchant & alchemy. unrealistic. if you know how to cook something there is no chance of failure just a chance of variance. so with that in mind a chance to vary the outcome +-25% for example. same thing goes with enchanting also once something is known to the player there is no chance in failure. ( you have to assume that the player is focusing on what they are actually doing). you have to remember that chance of failure was only used as a way to balance crafting professions and to add some element of gambling when making an item. other than that there is no logic in having items fail when you know how to make it.

im not a big fan of the starting spells but if i want to play a warrior type i don't use magic. i don't see why a mod is needed for that.

attributes are silly. games these days are about interaction the. rpgs attribute systems come from notepad games etc where you needed those attributes to get a feeling of who you are fighting because the only interaction was with the numbers. rpgs in the 21st century don't need those numbers to be visible and modified by the player. this is part of the reason i didn't like many rpgs of the past because i want to play the role of a player in a world not play a math game. don't get me wrong i do like some elements of math in games. but not to the point where every level up needs to be calculated to be at maximum potential of how you want to play. ALTHOUGH if there were attributes which could be increased and seen it would be cool if those attributes improved based on how you achieved the level. i.e. if you used archery to gain a level you will receive only agility. meaning the player cant pick and choose how the attributes increase besides how they play. meaning you cant have a player improve strength through archery.

and lastly in regards to skills. a skill is a skill. if you gain experience in one it is the same as another. why on nirn do you want to hold back leveling if you gain skills. that ruins the immersion because you are artificially keeping your self lower so you can be stronger in the future. all that skyrim needs is a slower leveling mod. which im sure there are a few out already.

With the advent of cooking I'd like to see foods used for health regen, rather than have it as automatic. At the moment I just tend to igore cooking because it feels almost out of place and pointless for the most part as it has no strong use.

I turned off the compass less than an hour into the game, and I've managed to find everything I needed to so far. As for what's wrong with it, well, for one it puts a huge compass in the middle of my screen. And I really don't want the game directing me right toward otherwise hidden caves, shrines, etc. I want to have to look for hidden locations, and possibly miss them if I'm not paying attention, not have the game basically shouting at me, "Hey! Hey you! There's a shrine hidden over that way! You're walking right past it! See, it's here on this giant compass stuck to your eyeballs!". Frankly, I like the fact that on a second or third play through I might stumble on places I've never seen before.

As a huge fan of Morrowind I agree with most of your points, however I dont think spell/melee should have a chance to miss, it simply wouldnt work very well in a game like skyrim. Well maybe spell sucess/fail chance would work but definitely not melee, imho. Don't think it will be possible to bring back minor/major, missing skills / attributes, but would be nice if its possible. The rest should be possible to do once CS is out.

Fast travel should be removed and replaced by expanded carriage support and mark/recall spells, also would like to see almsivi/divine intervention and some kind of teleportation system like in the morrowind mages guild.

I also would like a level scaling system like morrowind, or at least make it a lot more static then it is right now.

Just my 2 cents.



You got a point there, I agree partially. However I still think there is a certain charm and fun factor increasing your attributes, gives you a nice feel of progression.

The problem is the game is built around the compass. If you removed it outright you'd have no idea where to go. There's not enough information given to you at the beginning of a quest for you to have a clue where to go.

The quests are pretty much written for you to just follow the waypoint.

No longer are we given directions at the beginning of the quest. And very little information is given in the quest log either.

I seem to remember having to read through the journal in Morrowind trying to find where I needed to go. It would be nice if both systems were in place. So you could disable the compass and not be completely clueless on where to go.

Looking at the quest log in skyrim I find it difficult to do anything short of Highlighting it and hitting "show on map". As sometimes there is so little info that I don't even know what the quest was for.