If there are 65 million active steam accounts where are the people hiding? That doesn't say much for steam if 5 million (peak current users) people a day log in and even less people actually playing a game.

P.S. fyi I am a mmorpg player that is severely burned out on mmorpgs

This is just my impression, but PC gamers tend to be older it seems. Console gamers seem to have a lot more teenage players. Not saying there aren't Teenage players in PC games or older players in console games. There obviously are. I'm talking about the first standard deviation here. Teenagers have a lot more time on their hands and a lot less responsibilities, so can play a lot more games. Once you get older, you get more responsibilities and have less free time. For example, the reason I don't play games anymore is because:

1. I have a job

2. I'm going to college

3. I do tutoring

All that together leaves me with little free time, and so I spend it doing other hobbies I have more fun with. On top of that, your hobbies generally expand and you have more mobility when you exit your teenage years. So you have even less time to play in that respect too. It's not unreasonable at all that at any given time someone isn't online. All what you're saying is that PC gamers play less hours of video games, not that they are less numerous. hours played is just the result of free time and number of hobbies.

1) as said earlier, alot of people who play games on Steam do so in offline mode.. many service Providers have "Bandwidth caps" that limit how much data they can use a month before paying overage charges.. playing Steam games in offline mode helps save data

2) it did not say 5 million, it said 6+ Million daily.. remember, not every gamer can play games everyday.. there are things like Jobs, Family stuff, going and shooting some pool at the local pub.

3) you are still not taking into account those playing games that are not Steam games.. for example, all those playing games by EA are using Origin (like the BF4 you mentioned earlier), those playing any game from Ubisoft (assassins Creed, Frycry, etc) is currently going through UPlay.. alot of the Bigger PC Games (like League of Legends, Planetside 2, World of Tanks) all have launchers of their own.. then we have GoG, which is quite popular these days as the source for retro games, which has no DRM service at all..

and you said your a MMORPG gamer? How many people do you think are logged into WoW, ToR, LOTRO, Everquest, RIFT, Eve Online, Diablo 3, and all those FTP MMORPGs at any one point? as they are all PC Games
total that all up with Steam, Origin, Uplay, and even those games that have their own launchers, and it is going to likely eclipse that number of CoD Players you keep mentioning..

I couldn't have put it better myself

Gregman, there are a ton of flaws with your entire argument. You're basing all your claims on the current level of data that naturally fluctuates on an hourly basis. You're not taking extenuating circumstances into account either, not the least of which is that 1:30 EST doesn't exactly represent peak hours in the United States. Hell, take a look at this very forum to get an idea of what this means; there is a grand total of 18 people here. And you should damn well know that BGSF is neither small nor dying. And on top of all that, you're not even looking at the number of Xbox Live users for comparison, or even examining past data to give you any sort of correlation. You're just another one of thousands of doom prophets that's been saying this bull-[censored] for the past 15+ years.

OK I will give you that one.

While digital downloads of PC games have more than doubled since 2007, fewer people are buying personal computers. That’s forcing Steam to look elsewhere for future growth. PC sales peaked in 2011, according to research firm IDC, and are expected to decline 9.7 percent this year as more users migrate to tablets and other mobile devices.

Last year, the number of consoles in consumers’ homes, including the http://topics.bloomberg.com/xbox-360/, PlayStation 3 and Wii U, stood at 238 million, according to IHS Screen Digest. Spending on console software was $12.1 billion.

Link http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-26/pc-games-king-seeks-to-dethrone-sony-microsoft-consoles.html

Edit: also that article said valve made 1.1 billion in 2012, COD made that in a day and most of the sales were on consoles.

The problem with that argument can be explained in three basic points:

1. The #1 driver of PC sales is the business sector *by far*. Literally no comparison to consumer PC purchases. 2009-2011 were inflated in PC sales due to businesses starting their Windows XP migration (since support ends next year)

2. For the average person, a PC bought in the last 5 years is more than good enough for their needs, and supplementation of tablets and phones have made them less reliant on them

3. Your PC gamer enthusiast usually builds their PCs.

A slump in general-purpose PC sales is far from a death knell for the PC gaming market, which is not reflective in the general PC market.

did you even read the comments in the link you provided? its nothing but everyone saying how inaccurate the article is..

fewer people are buying PCs because people have found out its better to build their own.. can't build your own? well most tech shops will build one for you to fit your budget, but that will not be registered as a "PC sale" because it was made in the shop, so it won't be in Dell/HP/IBM/Gateway/Acer/ASUS's books for annual sales....

I think the most important thing isn't that it is specifically Valve who is making an alternative,but the fact that there is going to be an alternative at all.

And yes,probably SteamOS will be kind of closed too,from the viewpoint that it will come with Steam pre-installed and you will be buying things through Steam.

The reason that the existence of SteamOS is a good thing is because there will be competition.Even if both systems have 'closed' stores,still the consumer will have the option to choose between two different stores/OSs,and there won't be monopoly.

Heck, I have an 'active steam account' and anyone who knows the least thing about me knows that I despise Valve. A lot of games force you to have a Steam account to activate (Steam DRM). The account stays 'active' even if you then remove the Steam client from your machine, which is fine with me since I will eventually use it again to activate another game. There's your sixty million missing users. But the fact that they never access their account except to activate a game doesn't change the fact that they at some point activated a PC game.

I'm fairly sure mine is still active as well but due to my experience with....THAT. I'll never use it again well maybe if they follow GoG's lead.

Steam is intrusive. It tracks me. I dislike being tracked. In the future what happens? What if Steam gets sold? What if they go out of business?

When I buy single player games, I want the disc so I can just pop it in and play. I don't want to have to worry about online connections. My internet goes out at least once every couple of months. I don't like the "extra" steps I am forced to go through with playing a game on Steam.

I almost did NOT purchase Skyrim solely because of the Steam requirement. That will factor in big-time in my future purchases.

I love Steam and wish every game was on it.

PC gaming isn't dying by any means, heck Sony makes PC exclusive games.

BF3 was design around the PC with maps being built to support 64 players.

I feel the same way.

as a fan of elder scrolls I did not get Skyrim or new Vegas because of Steam (console versions are equally not an option though for differing reasons)

& I wish every game was on GoG.

I only see devs & publishers that limit their own userbase as potential bowing out of the PC games market when the market shifts. The "indies" of today could well become the AAA of tomorrow.

Going off a crap memory, I do believe I recall reading Valve (Gabe) has stated if that day comes, they are already set to "diassociate" the games from Steam. (Patch it out.) But again, my memory is crap so take with a grain of salt, or til someone confirms or disproves my statement.

Your memory is fine, it's just that you are remembering something that dropped out of the wrong end of a bull. This is the kind of 'oil on the troubled water' that Valve pours out as if it made sense just because it sounds good.

To 'patch it out' would involve releasing a patched exe file for every game that checks to make sure the Steam client is present before it runs...defeating the DRM on other publisher's intellectual property. Clearly not something a company going out of business is going to jump through the legal hoops to do. Every publisher will be responsible for releasing patches to their own property...or not releasing it as the case may be.

Hard copies that have 'Steam activation' DRM have files left off the disk that have to be downloaded from Steam. If you dust off the old disk to reinstall it after a format and Steam is gone you are outta luck, period. The failed company isn't going to magically provide those files from the void, no matter what their leader says. The publisher has the files, obviously, and would probably be willing to part with them, but the installer on the disk isn't going to ask them for them, it is going to ask the nonexistent Steam and say 'tough luck'.

As is always to be expected from Valve, the response is meant to sooth, not inform. So truth doesn't have to enter the equation. I just wish people would at least demand that their lies be believable.

It's nothing more than a rumor. The only real backing is that it was said ""Unless there was some situation I don't understand, we would presumably disable authentication before any event that would preclude the authentication servers from being available."

That's no promise, that's no anything. That's just an empty statement.

No offense meant to you in particular, I just get irked by Steam users going on about the promise to have their games if and when Valve disappears, as no such promise exists in reality.

I really don't follow this stuff much so I defer to you both. Just what I recall reading, somewhere, at some point in time. (Again, I refer to my crap memory. )

I can honestly say I highly doubt Valve is going out of business any time soon. That being said there nothing stopping them from selling out and doing a complete 180 on their policies. One bad thing about Valve if your account gets stolen and a game gets Vac banned your SOL. Because once a game gets Vac banned they will not reverse it even if you were not in control of the account at the time.

Well, if that's the way it's going to play out then it'll be like that for any system. Which leaves us with a choice. Accept it temporarily, and slowly campaign for more freedoms (probably won't change anything, but at least we can try). Buy a console and accept the problems with that. Or just give up on gaming entirely and find a new hobby.

While I'm pro-open source, and pro-freedom I've always accepted that the way business works is brutal and unfair (I accept games are made to make money and I don't disagree with that), and while I lobby for it not to be that way, there may come a day where the above choice is all that's left. Now, I love video-gaming. It's about the only hobby I actively make time for (everything else is just an as it comes kind of thing). To be honest I'll probably weigh up that choice and choose between a Steam/Origin dominated PC setup, or go back to the consoles from which I came, and accept the restrictions that come with that. It's not the way I'd like things to be, and I find it highly upsetting that this is probably the future, but it's not going to stop me dreaming and hoping for a more free PC gaming experience, and I'll try and get that any way I can until all paths are closed to me (even if that's an inevitability).

That is, unless you've got a better idea?

Unfortunately I don't. If/when the situation gets beyond my tolerance I will be able to just stop getting new games and play the games I have for the rest of my life...advantage of being an older gamer.

But until then I'll fight the good fight. Point out when Valve spews utter crap. Support competitive sources as often as possible (did you know that if you want to uninstall the GameStop digital download client you can just use the provided uninstaller and it actually will be gone without a trace? Try that with the Steam client...actually, don't try it since Valve's uninstall script will also uninstall Steam related games 'for your convenience', and leaves behind an automatic reinstall hook for the Steam client anyway. To get rid of the Steam client you need to use a removal tool.)

You're blaming Valve for making what was going to happen anyway- intrusive DRM- a mostly smooth and painless process? Developers have gone to Steamworks because it works, and a lot of people already use the service. Lest I have to remind anyone about Uplay or GFWL.

Look at all the slick interactive movies which can barely be called "games"... that's what those big AAA exclusives are. I have no interest in them. Let developers shun the PC. If they don't want my money, I'll take it elsewhere. The best games are still made for PC, and you can usually mod them and make them even better. For now, until Microsoft makes the PC a closed platform as they are trying to do, I'll take that independence and crowdsourcing and freedom over having to pay MS or Sony an arm and a leg for the privilege of playing games I already bought.

Again, this is blaming Steam for what every publisher but CDPR is doing. Steam is the least intrusive and least disruptive DRM there is, and since publishers demand DRM, thank the gaming gods for that.

They're doing it for GFWL.

As to the OP, I don't put much stock in a SteamOS but if Linux is the last bastion of PC freedom, I'll bite the bullet and learn to use it. About PCs vs tablets, I think tablets are going to bottom out soon anyway. People are realizing that they aren't a small laptop, you're quite limited on them, at least if you don't want to be tied to a million peripherals to make them work like a PC. I could see desktop PCs getting smaller and people owning a mobile device that will work as a virtual PC, but the home PC is going to be around for a good while yet.

LOL...smooth and painless process? Ever removed the Steam client? And the idea that 'it works' is frankly laughable. Every DRM is the same as far as 'working' goes.

I think to say a DRM system 'works' would mean it effectively prevents sharing the software without some sort of cracking process AND presents no inconvenience to the licensed user so they have no inclination to crack it. Pirates will crack everything anyway, but at least this wouldn't lead regular users into 'consorting with thieves' to avoid inconvenience. That system almost exists, and Steam ain't it.

Valve's approach goes the entirely wrong direction, making the DRM more inconvenient for the licensed user. But they aren't trying to make a working DRM, they are trying to make a DRM that works as a marketing tool for them.

Dollar to a do-nut SteamOS will be a pretty crappy version of LinuxOS, but will have numerous 'features' that empower Valve's marketing.

No. No, it is not. I take it you never tried to activate a game with GFWL or Uplay. Or EA servers before Origin, and sometimes after.

Some people have problems with Steam, but I never have and the majority of people I know who play PC games use it all the time with few to no problems.

Yes it is. Sorry if your experience is different than 99% of Steam's users.

I get it. When you say 'works' you are apparently referring to whether people have problems installing games. I thought you meant 'protects intellectual property'. In that regard every existing system is the same. It gets cracked therefor it fails to achieve its purpose. Hence does not work.

My assertion is that since they all get cracked anyway the real defining characteristic for a 'good' DRM would be that it presents no inconvenience to the licensed user, thus the licensed user has no inclination to consort with DRM cracking thieves...because consorting with thieves frequently has consequences.

To say Steam is anything close to that is clearly off target given the previous responses in this thread. It is intrusive so people who don't like being monitored may be inclined to find a thief. It uses hardware resources uncontrollably, so there's another group of IP respecting citizens who may be inclined to find a thief to keep it from doing so. Every time it makes itself obvious by serving as a marketing tool for Valve it makes itself less effective as a working DRM because it gives people one more nudge in the 'can I get rid of this thing' direction.

I won't have to remove Steam because I will never install it. I'm glad Steam works well for the many people willing to put up with the loss of personal control of their games. I won't be part of that group.