Because it is the only way to keep it from consuming resources to report to Valve while I play games...or even while I don't play games. Here's where you say 'it takes very little memory, hardly any space on the drive, minimal bandwidth'...but before you do I suggest you consider that the same can be said of most resource consuming malware. They don't use much either, but I eradicate them ruthlessly...why would I spare Steam?

@ Uncle Fuzzy...I would agree with you, but too many publishers have followed the siren's song of forcing their customers to be Steam users. The install steam client, activate game, remove steam client process is a pain in the tail, but once you get the hang of eliminating the reinstall hooks and other hidden tricks Valve puts in the Steam client it isn't worth refusing games to avoid it. The current generation, where publishers have agreed to include a 'verify Steam client present' run time check is a different story and might push me into joining you.

I can't believe you just compared Steam to Malware...

were you gaming back when the major DRMs were StarForce and Securom? having personally experienced those and seen how much they harm your PC, Steam is a god send.. I would gladly take Steam any day of the week and twice on Sunday over StarForce or Securom..

Don't start discussing removing the steam client. Just like the discussion of cracks and other things that circumvent any eula, it isn't allowed here.

Yeah I was around then. I would also take Steam over being poked in the eye with a sharp stick...that doesn't make Steam a good thing.

What would you say to a DRM that...

After installation and activation allows you to uninstall the DRM client using the uninstall feature and it actually completely removes the client.

Is totally transparent to the user when they play their game; nothing loaded to memory, nothing running in background, nothing connecting to the internet.

Requires less than 1K of disk space (same size as a desktop shortcut).

Cannot be detected other than happening across the one extra file in the main program folder of the game.

Allows the user at will to reload the client and receive updates and patches, then uninstall the client again if desired.

In my opinion this is the best DRM, currently or ever. To the licensed user it is so completely unobtrusive that only someone who is just plain rabid would have any interest in cracking it other than for nefarious purpose...with one unfortunate exception. Games which are modded through code hooking into the executable present problems, which means most Bethesda products present problems.

I've never had any programs uninstaller completely remove everything it created on the HDD and in the registry. Ever. There's a reason I always use an uninstaller like the one from Revo. (god, this post is starting to read like an advert) Only good uninstaller programs remove all that crap that programs don't ever bother removing, which slows down your PC over time.

Oddly enough I have had one program that provided an uninstall script that actually left nothing behind, and as a really sharp counterpoint to Steam it was the GameStop digital download service client. Due to my experiences with Steam I went into that uninstall absolutely loaded for bear and expecting hooks everywhere, and there was nothing...no registry entries...just...nothing.

Not wanting to swap advertisemants I won't name the cleaner I use, but I pretty much agree with you.

Back on Steam and Malware though...all programs tend to leave junk behind that didn't make it into the uninstall script for whatever reason. But leaving behind a process that will reinstall the program is pretty poor form normally associated with ad tracking browser toolbars and other lower life forms. At various times Valve has 'forgotten' to include the client update function in their uninstaller, so when I just used the uninstall and figured I'd clean up later since I wanted to play whatever game I just activated it reinstalled the client for me as an 'update'.

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Moderators please note that I mention removal of the Steam client only in reference to games that use Steam activation DRM and do not require the Steam client to remain on the machine, not in reference to games that have 'Steam checks' requiring the Steam client to remain installed. The Steam client does come with an 'uninstall' feature, however poorly implemented, and nothing in the Steam user agreement suggests that you cannot uninstall the client.

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Valve puts hooks in their DRM that force customers of other companies to become Valve users. The hooks do not make the DRM any more effective as DRM or do anything else for the publishers, they just strengthen Valve's market position. Then they blame the publishers when people complain about being forced to use Steam.

They then use the size of their market segment to sell the DRM full of hooks to more publishers. Despite there being DRM available that publishers could use that is just as effective as DRM and doesn't inflict anything else on their customers, which a good publisher would probably prefer, they can't just ignore the fact that Steam is a large distribution point.

The more publishers choose Steam the more customers are dragged into Steam's market base whether they like it or not. The more that market base grows the more publishers are forced to use Steam distribution. This is a feedback loop that allows Steam to succeed no matter how offensive it is or Valve chooses for it to become in the future.

Get it yet?

The relevance here is that it seems easy to predict Valve's future actions from their past performance. SteamOS is their Linux version. If it becomes at all popular then porting games to Linux platforms becomes more attractive to publishers. Great.

Unfortunately those ports are still going to "require" DRM, and Valve will provide it. Can Valve be expected to include in that DRM the capacity to operate in every possible Linux environment? Or will it be 'tuned' to SteamOS since "that's the Linux environment for gamers anyway"? And if the SteamOS 'just happens' to have marketing tools for Valve's distribution business built into it? No surprise there either, and what a convenient way for the DRM to verify that the OS is a 'suitable' environment. It can just verify that Valve's ad client is installed!

But a Linux environment is user controlled, so you could...oh, wait, I can picture it now...WARNING: modification of the OS may interact poorly with DRM that publishers choose to use on their games. Through no fault of ours you are forced into our customer base and then forced to remain there. Remember, Valve loves you and publishers are evil.

Actually this thread is supposed to be about "SteamOS & the future of PC gaming"

Valve's past performance is a solid indicator of the impact they intend for SteamOS to have on the future of PC gaming. A much better indicator than their various promises or spewed garbage about their 'philosophy', don't you think?

Oh, I agree that Steam could very well be but a taste of the meal Valve plans to serve.

LOL...with Steam as the appetizer I for one am not looking forward to the entree...and stay clear of the beverage bar...nothing but Kool-aid.

If people don't want DRM at all, they're already doing what you suggest. Hell people even pirate CDPR games, so don't tell me piracy is all about avoiding DRM.

My point is that Valve didn't invent DRM, and whether DRM is a good or bad idea philosophically is beside the point. Developers are going to use DRM unless they take a principled stand against it, which only one has done thus far. So Valve is simply providing a fairly smooth, painless way to deliver what you're going to have to get one way or another. The alternative to Steam is not no DRM, it's publishers shoving hamfisted, prohibitive DRM schemes on us that are virtually guaranteed to be worse.

Since you haven't noticed I'll point out one more time that I'm hardly even talking about Steam as DRM. I'm talking about how Valve uses Steam DRM as a tool to expand their market share as a digital distributor. In doing so they actually are making their DRM progressively worse as measured by the only practical criteria. That criteria has to be how offensive it is to users, since from a 'does it stop pirates' standpoint all DRM has proven to be basically the same.

I do not give Valve credit for 'inventing DRM'. I also do not give them credit for 'providing a fairly smooth, painless way to deliver' it.

It always amazes me how people who have fallen for Valve's PR spout about SecureROM. It's like me as an Eagles fan suggesting that their 6-5 record makes them a great football team...I mean look at Jacksonville, they just won their first game. Multiple teams at 9-2 or 8-3? Don't wanna talk about them. Divisions where the Eagles would be cellar dwellers instead of division leaders? Don't wanna talk about them either.

If all you have to say for Steam is 'hey it's better than SecureROM' I won't argue because it is. But if you want to extrapolate from that into 'Valve has really done us gamers a favor here' I'll either argue by pointing out that for every worse DRM like SecureRom there is also a system that is better than Steam, or I'll just laugh depending on my mood. And if you try to convince anyone that 'Valve has done us such a good turn in the DRM market that we should support their entry into the operating system market' I will always be around to mount a defense, because I believe Valve needs to be checked as hard as possible as soon as possible.

So Valve is promoting its platform. I'm supposed to be aghast at that? They're a business. It doesn't make things worse for gamers, because the DRM it replaces is almost guaranteed to have been worse. Worse as in, hindering your ability to actually play the games you bought.

In that way they have helped gamers, but in addition they also have made PC distribution easier and more attractive for developers, which means more games for the PC platform; they encourage indie development by giving them visibility and allowing the indies to reach more customers; and they allow PC players to combine a social element to gaming, for those that find that attractive (I don't use those aspects of Steam myself). And last but not least, their sales mean I'm playing games I would otherwise take a pass on. These aren't benefits I'm touting because I've swallowed some PR mumbo jumbo, but benefits I've actually seen and use in my own gaming experience.

I think Steam haters are just bitter that so many people use and like the service. Must make you feel like a Cassandra crying in the wilderness. If and when Valve turns evil, then you're allowed to say "I told you so."

Man you are truly a devoted fan of the 6-5 Steam team, aren't you? How do you justify saying "the DRM it replaces is almost guaranteed to have been worse"? When digital distribution started there was a far better DRM system available, in terms of transparency to the user...and that system is still available despite Valve's best efforts. It just never got the traction with publishers that Steam did.

The only thing Steam had going for it, from a publisher point of view, was that there were a small army of 'Steam users' already trapped by Valve's DRM because they had forced Steam use as a condition on Half-Life 2, and they were willing to use that leverage to market games for their early DRM buyers. This is the origin of making the DRM more intrusive (ie worse as DRM) in order to make it more useful for Valve. If they had been checked at that point they would have probably gone back to making games and we'd all be playing Half-Life 3...possibly with a transparent DRM system.

Ye'... Steam is "fairly smooth and painless"... XD.

I personally don't mind DRMs in general but Steam is TOO FAR.

Nah. I just dislike Steam cause I don't like being forced to run a crap program while playing games, to go online for activation of my games, to update my games upon activation, and so on so on so on...

Steam is TOO FAR into the DRM crap world and gives Valve too much power over de' players/users of Steam.

That may well be. I will NOT be using SteamOS until someone makes me. Windows is working just fine for my needs.

It really is too early to draw any major conclusions about SteamOS. We don't have it in front of us to examine to learn how exactly SteamOS works.

Because they are worse. Even the Steam haters have admitted as much, about SecuROM etc., before going back to complaining about Steam. As far as I'm concerned, Steam is transparent. I play offline and it might as well not be there.

Never had to use GFWL on a game, I take it. Or anything from EA.

I will never use any type of DRM that forces Internet Requirement on a physical copy of a game AND requirement of an useless 3rd party program. That is going too far with DRMs...

I can deal with some other DRMs but not those DRMs... Steam does both said things so Steam goes too far in my eyes.

Oh and note I do know other DRMs are worse than Steam but that doesn't mean Steam itself isn't bad.

I can understand a principled philosophical stand against DRM. My point is that as long as publishers are going to require some form of DRM, Steam is the best there is with few exceptions.

No one but CDPR sells games without some kind of activation or check-in. If you're fine with not buying any new games except for what can be bought on gog.com, good for you- that's your prerogative.

LOL...and you're consistent. SecureROM is worse. Steam haters agree SecureROM is worse. I agree SecureROM is worse.

But SecureROM being worse than Steam does not in any way imply that Steam is the best there is. You repeatedly say 'SecureROM was worse' and jump directly to 'so they are all worse'.

Ever played Galactic Civilizations 2? It has DRM. If you try to port it from one machine to another you either need to get approval from the publisher by referencing your registered account, or crack it. BUT there is absolutely no indication DRM is present on the machine it is installed on. NONE. Okay, I lied, there is a 1KB file (same size as a desktop shortcut file) in the game's program folder which you could find if you looked for it, but there is no 'client program' that has to remain installed, or even be temporarily installed, unlike Steam. Do you need an internet connection to activate? Yes. Do you ever need it again? No, unlike Steam.

Guess what. The DRM on Galactic Civilizations 2 is waaaaay better than SecureROM...and it is waaaaay better than Steam as well. As long as we stick to user transparency being the qualifying characteristic.

If you go with 'does it keep pirates from porting the game to other machines without authorization?' they are equal in that neither one makes a lick of difference. That's the only other possible measure I can think of.

By the way, just because you play off-line doesn't mean the Steam client isn't performing its automatic functions as long as it has access to an internet connection. It just means the game you are playing isn't using Steam to access the internet. If you want to take the Steam client off line you have to disconnect your machine.

Exactly. Playing "offline" still launches the Steam app. Steam is still running. I still get that little "Connecting to Steam" message when I boot up Skyrim.

Simple use of language by Valve...you are in fact playing offline...but you aren't playing 'steam client', you are playing Skyrim. Steam client doesn't play, steam client is a business application program...using your hardware to do Valve's business...in the background while you play. Good thing you and Skyrim aren't trying to push your hardware to the limits. What's that you say? Speak up, don't stutter.

Won't be a problem with SteamOS of course...I mean letting Valve manage the hardware resources will prevent your gaming from interfering with their use of your hardware much better, right? Reduced conflicts is a good thing, and Valve is just trying to help out here.

Yet the Steam client is still running ALONG with Skyrim. I may not be on the Internet, but the client is still running. Try running Skyrim without it

What will SteamOS do for "other" applications. You know, like MS Office, Photoshop, FRAPs, and such. I use my PC for so much more than "just games."