The presence of the Courier and his actions prior to the Second Battle of Hoover Dam pretty much decide the outcome - whichever faction he/she sides with, wins.

However, if Benny was a bit more thorough in his post-mortem, if Victor was an hour too late digging you up, if Doc Mitchell was too emotionally traumatised from the relentless taunts of the Weintraubs - where would that leave the Mojave, after Hoover Dam (which is destined to happen whether the Courier survives or not - Caesar's Legion would never leave the NCR alone).

My own view is that Mr. House stands a pretty good chance of coming out on top. All he needs to do is recruit another agent, which could be easily done with his army of securitrons monitoring the Mojave. The NCR and Caesar's Legion, having to do without the Courier's help, would beat the ever-loving crap out of each other in a much more closely run thing. I think the battle is too close to call; possibly a Pyrrhic Victory for the NCR- Kimball would be dead, the fiends would attack their HQ, their monorail would be destroyed. Caesar (possibly dead without the Courier - although he has a bit of a Schroedinger's tumor - there and fatal in his questline, just there in any other) would put up a good fight with Lanius's battle command.

With both factions significantly weakened, all House needs to do is instruct his agent to slip on a Stealth Boy, Infiltrate The Fort, retrieve the chip from Benny's crucified self or Caesar's comatose body and upgrade the army. A tall order, but Mr. House is a patient man.

Benny is still too stupid to pull it off by himself - likely still getting himself captured and strung up when he senses the excrement is about to hit the fan.

Legion would conquer the lands but lose way more soldiers while doing so without the demi-god known as The Courier, and after they are weakened, I believe House would take care of the pieces.
But NCR would not win, they might still hold the west coast but Vegas and the Mojave Desert belongs to either House or Legion.

- I largely agree. House would "divide and conquer". Even if he never got the securitrons opgraded, both factions would be too weak from beating the crap out of eachother at Hoovers to assert any serious pressure on House. Had House another agent with a modicum of cunning and initiative (a brahmin painted blue and complete with cowbells would be more subtle and descreet than Benny) he would still have a chance of upgrading his securitron army and wiping out any stragglers of either major faction at Hoover.

Wasn't there a similar thread around? Anyway let's take the courier out of the picture.

NCR: Can't hold the dam in the beginning state. Inadequate supply, low morale, too many loose ends behind the front lines etc...
Legion: Overruns the dam, Caesar dies of tumor, Lanius takes over, lays waste to Vegas.
House: Can't upgrade securitrons, eventually ends up defeated. That's pretty much it. Finding someone capable enough other than the courier is quite a slim chance.
Benny: Can't get to a place to use the chip. Caesar has him tied up to the cross.

Mr. House would certainly be able to find another capable agent; heck,I can think of a couple other people who could probably do it off the top of my head.

Everyone seems to be leaving benny out of it. He has the chip, and knows what to do with it. Real possibility it would become the Kingdom of Benny.....

I'll try and describe my choice (The Legion) in the most reasonable way i can.

1.) Why would the NCR fail?
-> The NCR is weak to begin with, they already have Legion Raid Camps inside their borders, the Monorail has been blown up (The courier stops it), President Kimball would have been assassinated, Camp MacCarren would have had trouble with the Fiends continuously, the Powder Gangers, BoS, and other small gangs like the Boomers would also put up a fight to coming under NCR rule. The NCR could handle SOME of these challenges, but with how thinly their troops are spread, the sheer size of the Mojave is their undoing.

2.) Why would Benny fail?
-> Benny is an overconfident buffoon. Let's say he takes the Platinum chip, upgrades the Securitrons. But he can't get them on his side until he kills Mr. House. And i really dont think that a guy who had to hire Khans in order to take down an unarmed courier could go up against 5+ Securitrons.
EDIT: If he could kill Mr. House, he wouldn't know what to do next. After you upgrade the Securitrons, you need t opower them up at the El Dorado Post. I don't think Benny would have realized this in time.

3.) Why Would House fail?
-> Without someone to upgrade his Securitrons, they are basically Police Officers. Imagine Police Officers going up against the US Army. No competition, especially is the Army is a ruthless killing machine like the Legion.
EDIT: If House WAS to find another right-hand-man, the likelyhood of that person to go into the Legion camp to upgrade Securitrons is HIGHLY unlikely. The only reason the Courier was bale to do it was because he was on semi-OK terms with the Legion.
EDIT (Again): The Securitons are key to Mr. House's success. Whatever the Gommarans were up to with their plan would have sidetrackedh im long enough to let the Legion succeed at the Dam, which would again result in total failure.

And Finally,
4.) Why would the Legion succeed?
-> The Legion has strong units and armor, good leadership, the drive to succeed, and the means to do it. Realistically, the only obstacle the Legion faced was the Dam. Once that's taken, everyone else is dead for reasons above. The Boomers would hold out a while, but they would eventually die due to lack of artillery shells and sheer mass of the Legions forces.

House.
The ncr is failing, caesers legion just fights them and wins, but has heavy losses. Benny isnt rushed out by the courier, better preperation, he gets into houses bunker and activates the army, houses army is active (benny probablly dies later). The army then takes out CL, who are weakened by the loss due to ncr, and Caeser dies, lanius is a weaker leader, house wins, but loses more securitrons due to no upgrade, later with a clean Mojave he find the chip and upgrades. He has resources and rebilds securitrons. All that happens is house's plans are delayed while he rebuilds his power, after that its along with his vision.

Im just gonna go ahead and say that Benny would probably come out on top, if house found antoher agent. Because the agent would nto have been shot in the head by Benny, he might help him out of Caesers Camp, and be convinced to help him.

Don't forget Benny is forced to rush his trip to The Fort because of the Courier's appearance. Chances are he would've been more thorough without the Courier in the way, and may even have succeeded in activating the Securitron army. I don't know if he would've been able to kill House since he's not allowed into the Lucky 38. Maybe House and Benny end up working together again after all. They do seem to need each other to an extent. Maybe House would have tried to make Benny do the dirty work, and kill him after he succeeded. So that probably would've made House come out on top.

To me it's mr House but propably only for a while.
He will get the chip from Benny, even by force if he has to. And by that I mean that he will order his secutrons inside the Tops or buy off a NCR sniper to headshot Benny when he comes out. But without the Couriers help he will not be able to activate his army under the Fort but still, he will have small amount of upgraded robots in his control.
And after NCR will be defeated by the Legion at the Hoover dam (reasons in messages above) he will use his secutrons to take control.
After that New Vegas will be under his control but only until Legion gathers it's powers and comes back. And that's when NV goes to Legion unless after Hoover dam goes down House pushes all the way up to the Fort and activates his army of secutrons.

legion would win because ncrs morale would be 10 times lower than a feral ghouls hq because
-monorail is blown up
-president is assasinated
legion has camps in the mojave
-fiends would be killing ncr near mcaran

why house wwouldnt sucsed
-has no one to upgrade securitrons so they are taken out with some casulties

benny wouldnt win beacuse
-he get captured by legion on the way to the fort and even if he did make im prety shure he wont be able to kill the turrets

So, basically, exactly what I said in less detail?

The legion takes over because there's no one to help ncr and house may or may not find someone new.

Even if house finds someone new, there is a very big chance they would double cross him. He can't really do anything and all the new person has to do is move to anOther city and not come back to Vegas.

The events during The Battle for Hoover Dam if The Courier is dead from the beginning:

-Legion pushes through the dam, having forces moving both from the main approach and the intake pipes.
-Legion forces assault Camps Forlorn Hope (demoralized, under-equipped) and Golf (under-trained), overrunning both.
-Fiends and Great Khans begin a full scale onslaught on Camp McCarren. (Reminder: Legion has a spy inside McCarren)
-Brotherhood might take the opportunity to attack Helios I (not sure)
-Omertas smoke the strip, unupgraded securitrons are no-match. (reminds me of Wright ending for New Reno)
-House, at best, retreats to Lucky 38 and seals the blast doors.

Result: The dam has fallen, Mojave is ripe for a Legion takeover. NCR retreats to Mojave Outpost. House is pinned-down in his casino (unless he has some sort of a super weapon in his pocket).

All my opinions of course.

Was there? I had a search, but if you could link us to see I'd appreciate it.

Looks like Caesar's Legion is coming out on top. Perhaps realising its strength, Benny/House would try and reconcile their differences, probably betraying each other again in the process.

Without a leader for the Securitron army, how do they fight besides destroying everything in their path?

Yep, benny would activate the securitrons, then go to kill house only to get owned by the securitrons, then house has everything.


Talk to raul, the luck 38 was shooting down nukes, it would be very costly but he could shoot the dam, wiping out caesers army, but may have some issues unless he has a backup generator, which I think i likely. Then he could rebuild the dam.


No leader for Caeserss legion...
Securitrons still have house.

But House doesn't have the Platinum Chip?

benny would sneak into hte fort and unlock the army, then go to kill house, dropping the chip neatly into hous's hands. House wins.

I see. I still think Legion though, unless House had somehow acquired the help of the Boomers. The Boomers are the make-or-break for the Legion, as the Boomers could harass them with the bomber until House's robots could finish them off, but without another right-hand-man, the Boomers stay neutral.

But the Boomers wouldn't have the bomber, the Courier never retrevied it from the lake. They only have the artillery and the Missile Launchers, Grenades, and Robots.

I said if House find another right hand man. This means that House would have the next person go befriend the Boomers, which would lead to the same quests and the same result.

This is a crazy question cause so much stuff could go down. You guys are just thinking about the main people. What about the side factions like the Boomers? I think if Caeser even thought about messing with them he would fail quickly. Their artillery shells flying all over the place would WHIPE everyone out. And no one knows the secret to get to the base, so they would just rush in and ALL die. So if some one hooked up with the Boomers I think they would be in good hands.

But what about Benny? He's been working with Yes Man and from what it seems, he had ties with the legion of Caeser as well. The only reason I assume this is because he knew he had to get to their base. Why would he go there alone? He would have to have some connection with them. BUT! Benny would still have to get past all those robots in the weather thingy so I dunno if he would make it alive.

The NCR? I count them out. From my point of view it seems like they are trying to make peace. And in this time period peace is not how handle things. You kill people and it sends a message. Thats Why I count the NCR out.

Caeser's Legion would probably have the best chance because they are ruthless. They don't care who you are if your not Legion ( or courier ) then you're gonna become a slave or you're going to be dead. This attitude will help them take over the mojave.

I think Mr. House could honestly find some one else to be his agent. The Legions guards at the fort carry, knives and machetes. Send a robot down there and you could wipe out the whole fort. But all Mr. House needs is one person to put them in the super military mode and its all over.

What about the brotherhood of steel? Could they be added into this? After all they don't like the NCR, and they did find out that the NCR was taking over Primm. Maybe this could've added to something?

Dupe thread, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1151342-and-on-that-day-the-courier-died/