How come the barbaric Nords start out with +5 in speech, and the Imperials only speech-related bonus is Voice of the Emperor (which by the way looks more Ilusion-related since it's a calm spell)? Restoration bonus are also removed from the Nords, and given to the Imperials who now have a surprising +10 restoration to start with. Anyone care to share their thoughts?

The Imperials svck at convincing people to stay in their empire.

Arguments I've read that make sense:

1) Nords and bretons get a speech bonus in Skyrim because the citizens of Skyrim like nords and bretons more than other races.
2) 200 years have changed cultural norms for the races a lot.

Well, the game is set in Skyrim, the home of the Nords. So they sort of have an automatic benefit when it comes to talking in this part of the world. Makes perfect sense to me.

Can't comment on the Restoration point.

I would assume it is because we are in Skyrim, the native provice of the Nords. The meaning behind being an Imperial Citizen has changed since the time of Uriel Septim. Provinces have already left the Empire, thus, the prestige of being an Imperial has dropped.

Nords are now in their homeland, meaning they know how to act within the culture of the land and it's people.

Well, most of the time, they'll be talking to other Nords. About half of which hate the Empire now. Makes sense to me.

It might have something to do with the fact that it's in Skyrim. Maybe people think it's a better idea to listen to a native of the land. However, I personally don't find that very convincing. All the natives got in Morrowind and Oblivion were disposition bonuses, not speech bonuses.

It's also possible that the Nords have changed over the years, but I don't know about the Imperials though. Maybe they lost their speech skills over the years? I don't think the bad state that the Empire is in now should make Imperials lousy speakers; if anything there should only be a disposition decrease and not make them worse speakers.

EDIT: One more thing - Intimidation is now part of Persuasion. I don't know if Speech helps it in any way, but I would say Nords are more intimidating than Imperials, though if it worked that way Orcs would have some speech bonus as well.

That's what speech does, though. It's not literally "you know five more words than that guy with half your speech skill". It's how well you interact with others, and therefore directly affects their disposition toward you.

I think a more logical way to reflect this is disposition bonuses instead of increased speech skill. Nords don't become better speakers the moment they cross the border into Skyrim. Imperials don't become worse speakers just because people don't like them that much anymore.

Disposition may not be shown with an indicator now in Skyrim, but it's still there, just behind-the-scenes.

EDIT: @dannythefool

So speech in Skyrim is now combined with something like Personality?

also, nords aren't as barbaric as people here believe. rough and tough yes, but they're also one of the more industrious and advanced races when it comes to trade and exploration, areas in which speechcraft is important.

Well, the Personality attribute is gone, and the Mercantile skill was rolled into speech, so I'd say yes it covers everything related to interaction. Speech perks also include ones that improve intimidation, persuasion, seduction and so on.

I would guess it's because Skyrim is the native province of the Nords (and the Empire is not what it once was) as some have already suggested then. But I still feel a little bit disappointed, in previous games the Imperials always stood out as the masters of speech and trade, this time I feel they look more like spellswords by glancing at their starting bonuses.

Trust me none of the Racials and bonuses make sense lore wise now. Just forget about it lol.

Imperials were the smooth talkers and merchants before.

Dunmer used to be Spellswords with some competence in combat and were able to summon their ancestors for aid and guidance.

Redguards used to be PURE warriors with an aversion to magicka and have disease resistance.

Nords used to be rude, no holding back types, as well as heavy armor users with a bonus to restoration.

Argonians used to have poison resistance and have some competence for comabt .

Altmer used to be weaker to elemental magicka and resist disease because of their selective breeding.

Bretons used to be more capable mages with bonuses to magicka.

Orsimer used to have a slight resistance to magicka.

Bosmer can suddenly resist poison.

Really the only race that seems like it reflects the Lore well is the Khajiits, and even then they are kind of...well eye of fear-less.

Recommend you get over it. A disappointment but meh.

Skill bonuses are decorative.

Edit: Dunmer still summon ancestors. It's just a clingy fire thing instead of a gloomy blob thing. ˉ\_(ツ)_/ˉ

Yeah, I'm gonna play an Imperial no matter what, glad attributes are gone along with major/minor skills. Won't matter that much.

I see, that would make things more reasonable then. However, what about Nord interactions with foreigners? A Nord might be better at interaction with other Nords and people who know about Skyrim's culture and traditions, but I am sure there are many foreigners in Skyrim. I would imagine convincing and interacting with these foreigners would be easier with a silver tongue than being a native and understanding the local culture and traditions. Wouldn't this translate the speech bonus for the Nords (which encompasses all NPCs of any race that can be persuaded) as the Nords being better speakers and more likable than the Imperials?

They are supposed to reflect the culture and natural affinities of the races. Obviously they don't. 200 years does not change long lived elves either.

Edit-You cannot talk to fire can you though? Sul does that AFTER the Red Year event. It is a break in lore. Meh, Skyrim will make up for it though I am sure.

Yeah i completely agree. I guess what I posted was my way of dealing with the issue lol. I really don't quite get it

Imperials are home at Cyrodiil so that was their time for a speech bonus. Now Nords are so it's their time. So a Nord will be able to persuade people better in Skyrim than an Imperial DOG! Makes total sense.

Follow the logic...

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Imperial

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Dunmer

Not so much...

Exactly. +10 Restoration now? Serious? Who decided Imperials would get that instead of Speech. If I didn't know better i'd say it was just a mistake but almost every race got jacked up (I think Altmer and Khajit are the only ones that come close to being normal).

^^^^^^

I would say Khajiits alone have stayed true. Altmer...not so much. Only the skills. Not racials.

This is true...

Nords are heavily inspired by real-life vikings. Those people were well renowned to be very good merchants and travellers.

I don't know if it's the same for Nords, but that inspiration could explain the speech bonus.