Huh, thanks for running those tests.

Do you folks think you'll be beefing up on Resist Fire enchantments to be safe? (Just started a new vampire myself, trying to figure out how to enchant his Worn Shrouded Armor, and excited by this revelation!)

You might need to take your gear off and put it back on. You need to check the descriptions in the "active spells" section, not the gear itself. The gear itself is a set value, it is only the perk that changes its actual effect on you.

As far as an increase in value of hitpoints lost, I didn't notice that. But there is no reason to let your vampirism progress past level 1. I like to feed in the college dorms, or the temple in whiterun has two sleeping injured people at all hours.

I'm going to go test that lost hps part now.

looks like bethesda actually did soemthing right about the vampire class in this game and never told anyoen that vamps were undead...plz plz plz for the love of god DONT CHANGE IT!

Another game breaking bug. Just using enchanting, smithing and alchemy makes it easy mode too.

Well, I test and it definitely makes the hitpoint, magicka, and stamina penalty worse. At level 1, I now lose 19 of each instead of 15. It does not increase the regen penalty from the 100% penalty assigned, otherwise my stamina would be decreasing on its own.

I stay at level 1 though so that my fire penalty isn't too much.

Haha, tell that to my 1 month old topic (and still running) called: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1312052-master-playthrough-40-hp-vampire-assassin/
I stay in the final vampire stage where everyone attacks you on sight, making the calm spell very important to talk to people and get quests and such. It changes the whole way you play the game since going in and out of cities is sometimes more challenging than the dungeons.

As a stealthy/illusionist backstabber (where vampire was already the way to go, even before this new buff) you don't really need any points in health, even on master, and it makes the game way more fun if you're actually scared of enemies when you screw up. I fully recommend people giving it a try.

I guess I have to update the title to "25 hp" now though. lol

That's the only part that worries me. My character might be high level, but as a mage I decided to not put any points into health. So I have no idea becoming a vampire with this perk will kill me when I bump into a butterfly.

Someone needs to try this with dead thrall on some Draugr Deathlords!

Edit: Or are deathlords not even applicable for dead thrall?

they are not, only "human" npcs.

Just carry around a ring or something with health on it. A full Mage should rarely be getting hit anyway.

184% smithing potions get boosted to 230%. Add in a set of 33% smithing gear, which gets boosted to 41% per piece.

Yes Steel + Elven Smithing perks. Yes Ancient Knowledge.
No armor skill perks / weapon perks / stone / other enchants:

Elven Armor (just the chest): 331 Armor Rating
Steel Armor (just the chest): 334 Armor Rating

Elven Bow: 148 Damage
Elven Dagger: 140 Damage
Elven Sword: 145 Damage
Steel Dagger: 136 Damage
Steel Sword: 140 Damage

With armsman, fortify one-hand, etc. damage is going to be through the roof and hitting the armor cap is going to be even easier. Time for a "Character Design Freedom - Thread 9".



R.I.P. the idea of werewolf being the better choice.

It is hardly game breaking, there are negatives to being a vampire as well, although, I don't notice them very much since I am used to it.

To the OP, you may have been the first to discover it, but I have had a Vampire/Necromancer/Illusionist (My favorite class ) with the necromage perk (I did it for the RP!) since day one. Apparently I have been benefitting from this for quite some time and completely unaware of it. Oh and +1 rep to you! Darn, you can't add rep here

Let's see what Hellmouth has to say about this.

Thanks! Yeah, if I wasn't a Become Etherial and Talos Shrine/necklace [censored], I never would have noticed I think. Once my Become Etherial was lasting longer than the recast time, I knew something significant had changed in my character. The 15 carrying capacity necklace giving me 19 additional carrying capacity really sent my mind wondering. Then I remembered that last perk I had picked and an epiphany moment happened.

I even tried googling this particular benefit of the perk and vampirism and found nothing and I dared to think that I was the first to figure it out, which never happens for me in a game like this. I'm usually reading the tips, not finding them. Feels good.

I blame the reason on why it took so long for this to be discovered on the fact that restoration is pretty hard to level and the necromage perk (because of bad scaling on turn undead) is rather useless in general.


The negatives for being a vampire always have been pretty quite severe but a +25% enchants/shouts and +50% durations is too good to pass up. Any min-maxed build will want this little trick now. Vampire's are on the top of the foodchain now.

Dispite it being a bug, I kinda like it because vampires kinda needed a buff plus they have so much more roleplaying potential than werewolves. Hardly anyone used the transformations (lategame) and now, if you want to min-max, you have to live with the consequences of having to feed regulary. OR like many others do: play in stage 4 where everyone hates you (and you have to use calm spells) to get a totally new game experience. It's an interesting roleplay penalty for wanting to have the best of the best stats. I like it.

No problem. It has been quite interesting to test the effects. My destruction is really low though and this magic school still needs confirmation.

I imagine the cloak spells get the buff as well because they're cast on self. As well as 2 of the 3 MASTER spells: Blizzard & Fire Storm.
We know they're normally quite useless, but maybe with a 25% buff more acceptable..? Also, the time it took to cast was always a negative selling point for the master spells but now you can cast them savily inside a "Become Ethereal" Shout and the moment it breaks the Ethereal you can instantly cast a new one.

So it might even spawn a new class/gameplay type with Destruction mages running around in the invincible ethereal world all the time, only to enter the domain of the human world to unleash overcharged master spells on their foes.
Roleplay as someone from the Psijic Order.

The whole reason why I never wanted the necromage for so long, was because I thought the only undead were skeletons.
Super scary skeletons who die from simply throwing a shoe at them.

Then I learn recently that vampires and draugr count too.
Is there anymore enemies that are undead?

edit: Duh-oh, I forgot I have detect undead spell all that time.

to explain ur logic, ill qoute straight form the manual

"Necromage improves ALL of ur spells , not just Turn Undead spells. Spells with a duration last 50% longer, spells with a magnitude are 25% stronger. So your Destruction Spells now do 25% more damage to undead."

So being ALL spells last longer and magnitude are stronger against undead, when ur a vampire and the game counts u as undead all spells that u cast "against" urself are gonna be stronger. the game is labeling u as undead so since u can cast spells still on urself, the game is counting those spells as against an undead whereas enemy u could only cast harmful spells but with it being ALL spells and u can cast on urself, the ALL spells means ALL spells. And form reading that, yes it does tend to side with this is what part of its purpose was, weither intentially or unintentially, the perk is doing whats its suppose to do.

to the OP, great job again finding this out, makes me wonder what else is in the game that all us have yet to realize right under our noses.

Yes, the interaction between the perk and vampire undead status was already quite clear, it's the intentionally or unintentionally part that is important. As I said before: "IMO it clearly, most certainly is an unintended consequence".
The perk might be doing what the code says it's supposed to do, but I'll bet ya there's a snowballs chance in hell that it was intended by the game developers to affect your own enchants and shouts simply because you're a vampire.

To me, it makes perfect sense. When you cast a spell such or use an enchantment on yourself, it's being used AGAINST an undead. If you use an amulet of talos, it's being used against an undead(you)

......

That's how the game code works yes, but the amulet of Talos isn't really used against you now is it? You get the benefit afterall...
It's just a byproduct of the way the (simplified) Active Spell list works. Even the -60 health/stamina/magicka vampire drawback gets "buffed" even though it's not even your spell to begin with. Nor is it an "improvement" on your part like the perk description would make you believe.

The other part is affecting enchantment effects. Which obviously should NOT happen.

But it does, just like foritfy restoration potion boosting enchantment effect on your item. Only difference bweteen the two is the first one can be looped.


By this logic, neither is the foritfy restoration potion/fortify alechmy enchantment loop, as the underlaying cause is the same.

^^ This please.

I wonder what spelleffect precisely makes vampiric characters 'undead' for the purpose of Necromage?

Perhaps it is the Vampirism property itself?

How is constantly being invulnerable NOT game breaking??