That's the thing, if you wanna RP as a legionnaire you're doing some MAJOR bride burning in the process. If you wanna RP as a NCR trooper you're only cutting off Powder Gangers, the Great Khans and The Legion, which is really not so bad.

Even the strip is infected with NCR.

Personally, I would like the next "filler" Fallout in Uta or Arizona.

My wild guess is that the game/map become too big for they to ship the game in time with more Colorado east bank.

Well, isn't Legion pretty much just a brutal bunch of characters. They plan to enslave everyone (very few are just "brought along") like they planned to enslave the khans after the battle and their hatred of the NCR is obvious.

I think getting cut off from everyone is part of the nature of the legion, it doesn't make all that much sense (why cut off possible allies, trade routes, etc.) but that seems to be their way. That's my take on it.

Or maybe I'm not getting your point? I'm sort of tired right now so I'm in the slow lane.

There could have been more Legion quests to harm the NCR, or gain favor with those opposed to them, but overall I think the large number of NCR quests is reasonable. They are, after all, in control of that territory. The Legion is the invading force.

And I can certainly agree with that. I just find it a bit silly since Caesar's Legion is supposed to be the big opposing faction to the NCR. I certainly expected more than... you know.... this.

Some stuff that happens in the game, like , could have been a Legion quest.

It actually IS.

The NCR does have a lot of quests but hey do what I do. Do the NCR quests but remember that The House Always Wins. Doesn't matter what the NCR does you get those MKII's and you can kiss the NCR goodnight.

The Legion is intended as the "bad guys" while the NCR are the "not-so-good-but-better-than-the-Legion guys". And a large part of the Mojave is under the control of the NCR, so if you become a member of the Legion it's difficult to wander around the Wasteland.

Anyway, I would like to see a DLC where you can travel to the Arizona (which, I guess, is controlled by the Legion) as a NCR spy or something similar.

Bad guys? That really all depends on how you see it. See, if you'd actually take the time to talk to them (Instead of shooting on sight) you'd might actually understand their viewpoints and what they're trying to do. I find them way more effective than the NCR and more suited to rule the Mojave. Arizona (United under The Legion it's safer than ever), their caravans, and their policy on chems would be perfect examples of that.

Yep, my legion character cant even visit I go ther MP attack, I fight back then the securitrons get envolved.


NCR are invading too, only non invaders are natives, which seem to be rare as everywhere I hear "the fiends sholdnt have messed with our great army" and other ncr crap.


Try putting lanius in charge, things will go to [censored] pretty quickly.

Haven't actually tried putting the Legate in charge, but I would imagine the Legion going into decay if that'd happen.

I do find it kind of insulting to the developers that everyone is so quick to label the Legion as "evil".

I don't think the Legion is evil, they are just brutal. Personally, I wouldn't mind a bandit-free, chem-free wasteland, so long as I'm friendly with the Legion.

Having most of the Mojave under the control of the NCR means that there is nothing much for the Legion characters to do, and there aren't enough NCR patrols to ambush, not enough Legion quests, companions, etc. so I hope they eventually make Legion characters able to be more than just kill-everything characters.

Yep, talked to them, listened to their viewpoints.
Well-spoken banol evil is still banol evil.
The Legion represent some of the worst herd mentality aspects of humanity.
They are savages who have fallen under the sway of a lunatic conducting a sociology experiment.
If anyone admires them, may I suggest moving to North Korea? That's the closest real-world correlation you'll find.
'Safer than ever?' Yeah. Anyone willing to sacrifice freedom in the name of safety deserves neither. Who said that? Franklin?

I'm playing as a female character, and half the time it was "Woman, know your place!" I couldn't even fight in the arena because "WOMEN don't fight. *sneer*."

Cutting down on drug abuse and dealers is one thing, but they don't even allow their own troops proper medical supplies (a certain mech in Kai-zar's tent not withstanding). And making what little they do allow is slave's work.

Sorry, Legion fans, I just can't get behind them. That said, I really do wish that there had been more Legion-related quests in the game, and it is heavily overbalanced to NCR players (like myself).

Raul is kinda pro legion, he symphathises with their cause, talks about how arizona was a hell hole before legion came round.
Im actually quite pro legion, the romans did exactly what the legion does and we owe so much to the romans. Keep in mind that since the legion is the invading force, you do not see any real cities of the legion, just war camps. You dont see any civilians for the legion, [which must exist] You dont see how they make their coins, or how the feed there army, using farms of their own perhaps. For all we know, the legion built a city equal to new vegas in its splendour back in arizona [DLC anyone?] and called it rome. That city might prosper and be greater than any NCR city. And the civilians there think legion is the best hope for the mojave. The game makes legion look bad but leaves enough room for debate for those who think about it.

True to Ceasar

Raul may like the legion, that still doesn't make him a Legion companion by any stretch of the imagination. You lose 2 companions in the process if you decide to side with the Legion (Which is outright biased).



An interesting view I gotta give you that, but your comparison to North Korea and the likes is fairly ridiculous. Do keep in mind that this is just a video game, and in a world that has been teared apart by nuclear war, circumstances are quite different.

I agree, we needed a Legion companion to provide counterbalance for Boone, and it seems we didn;t get one. And you're right about missions as well: with so many NCR missions, there needed to be more Legion ones as well.

Certainly, the descriptions of the Legion ignore the great accomplishments of the Roman Empire. Yes, they enslaved and crucified people, which is sick and wrong. However, they brought the known world to standards of literacy, hygiene, comfort, entertainment, security, and civilization that would not be seen again for over a millenium. The roads were mostly free of robbers, and the seas of pirates. Even poorer people ate reasonably well, and had access to the baths and various entertainment. Slaves were quite often regarded as family members in their own right, and could earn or receive their freedom. Had Bethesda wanted to fairly recreate Rome, they should have recreated its upside as well. That would most likely have been a nation of people who were safe, well-fed, and enjoying many of the same amenities as their pre-war counterparts had. Maybe even a few new ones.

The Legion itself reminds me of the Qi dynasty under Shi Huan di minus the slaves.

Since this has become more of a topic about Legion, I'll tell my own opinion. Legion will fall apart sooner or later because it's leadership. Ceasar will keep it as a one tribe but eventually there will be leader that can't do that and the country will be divided again. The problem is that Legion needs charismatic leader who will be smart enough to make the right decisions so that he won't need to lay on others in his decision making. If he gives power to other people which will eventually create a little inside that controls the Legion and thinks only about itself. Ceasars power roots from the worship he gets from his men. If the men start to think by them selfs and create taste for power and wealth then the Legion will be destroyed. It wouldn't hapen over night but it would still happen.
And yes the game is horribly one sided. I'm still hoping for DLC that would use the open area on the other side of the river.

A more charistmatic leader? The Legion soldiers are incredibly devoted and would rather slit their throats than be captured.

But really, I don't wanna get into that. I just wanna raise the point that the 2 main factions are poorly balanced.

IMO, besides all the imbalance of quests, companions, etc., another imbalance is how they show the NCR's politics, military, civilians, refugees, and even parts of its economy while they only show the military aspects of the Legion, excluding a few slaves. This makes it hard to see the Legion as anything but invaders, but there seems to be no one (except the Kings and House) who don't want to become NCR.

North Korea was the only nation operating as a dictatorship of personality I could think of while typing; just as Caesar's Legion is built on veneration of Caesar, North Korea is based on veneration of the Kims. There are many parallels, but they are parallels with almost any dictatorship. The key is this -- the rank and file of evil regimes think they are doing 'good'. Look up 'banolity of evil' if you're unfamiliar with the term.

Circumstances being different in a post-apocalyptic world meaning there would be a greater need for discipline? Can't argue with that.

Life would require discipline in almost every factor of life once the great manufacturing centers, factory farms and retailers were gone. You would have to ration your food intake, provide for fuel needs, stay on constant alert for opportunists, construct and repair your protective clothing, keep weapons in top repair and keep your domicile secure from the elements. It would require hard work and most of your time would be spent just staying alive. Raiders and thieves in such an environment deserve harsh punishment (I'm thinkin' woodchipper & lemon juice). That's something the Legion did right, in theory if not actual practice.

The price for the Legions beneficent protection? Slavery, sixual domination, death sports and random cruelty. Not worth the price.

Oh, yeah -- honestly, I'm not taking this too seriously. As much as I hate the Legion you svckers are now making me want to run a Legion PC just to see the different content. Buncha buttheads.