The Logic of the `Empty` label... : V - Skyrim

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:06 am

I agree.

While it's a "smaller" scale issue, it does make really zero logical sense.

The game is supposed to be about immersion and exploration, labeling game containers as "empty" removes the inspection process that folds itself into immersion and exploration.

If you want to feel immersed you do have to turn off the HUD imo, and then the empty label isn't a problem also.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:16 pm

Doesn't really bother me that much, it saves me time when i happen to notice it before i open the container.. But yeah, id much rather a visible version with altered containers for when they're empty, think I've used mods like this before.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:55 pm

Indeed. Already opened containers should, however, if completely cleared of items, show up as "empty".

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:02 am

As I will check all containers for loot, I like that the "empty" label is there to keep me from checking for loot in an empty container.

I can see how this will absolutely ruin a person's day though, as you'd need some kind of x-ray vision to see if something was empty without actually looking.

Perhaps if a container was empty, it would be non-interactable, as if it was just scenery?

I'd hardly call this "issue" a problem with the game. I reserve that label for bugs and broken quests.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:35 pm

kaidan -

i like your idea a lot. just make it non-interactable.

barrels are not only non-interactive, but, different (like darkeric was talking about) as well.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:45 pm

I never liked it myself. I recall in Fallout (due to the years) almost every container was empty ~because it had been looted long since. Only those that existed in or around someone's house, or in a very isolated area would likely have anything it in anymore. It's no surprise that anytime you found something where you assumed there was nothing ~it was a neat event. Labeling containers as empty IMO ruins part of the fun of exploration... If you don't think so... Imagine if they labeled a cave door as "Empty".

* Still... Labeling it 'empty' is not as bad as rendering the container non-interactive after it's been opened.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:50 pm

Easy fix:

Use one model for things that are empty.

And another for things that have something in them.

Doesn't screw with immersion and doesn't have you waste your time.

It's easier than that. Container models that open up when you check them can be marked to stay in the open position. Just use that as an indicator that they're empty.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:48 am

It's easier than that. Container models that open up when you check them can be marked to stay in the open position. Just use that as an indicator that they're empty.

How is it any different than having a big "Empty" sign on it?

I can see having the game auto-shut containers that contain items... but it's still not that realistic... If someone looted an area and looked in a chest and found it full of stuff they did not want... they would carefully close the lid again?

Doesn't screw with immersion and doesn't have you waste your time.

Having no label at all doesn't ruin immersion; but having a visual cue that a box is empty does IMO.

You play the game for as long as you play it... no time is wasted whatever you do. :shrug:

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:27 pm

How is it any different than having a big "Empty" sign on it?

I can see having the game auto-shut containers that contain items... but it's still not that realistic... If someone looted an area and looked in a chest and found it full of stuff they did not want... they would carefully close the lid again?

It's better because it's a visual indication that doesn't rely on text or psychic knowledge of the contents of a closed container.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:04 pm

I agree.

While it's a "smaller" scale issue, it does make really zero logical sense.

The game is supposed to be about immersion and exploration, labeling game containers as "empty" removes the inspection process that folds itself into immersion and exploration.

Agreed.

Seems like a small change that would be nice.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:24 pm

It's better because it's a visual indication that doesn't rely on text or psychic knowledge of the contents of a closed container.

But doesn't it? The player knows by sight that a container is empty ~when the PC should not... but behaves as if they do. They unerringly open only those boxes with items in them.

Consider if the boxes in a room were sometimes trapped. Any box that was empty would never trick the Player. Imagine if the barrels in Diablo had been labeled empty.
(Worse: Imagine if the boxes in TES were labeled "Trapped" and "Empty")

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:26 pm

I have it so ingrained in me to hit E when I see a container that most of the time I've activated it before consciously registering the "Empty" tag. I can see it making sense for Sacks, maybe; telling at a glance whether a sack has some veggies in it versus nothing seems reasonable to me, but you're right about it being out of place on barrels, chests, and pretty much everything else. I wouldn't be sad to see it removed.

i also hit X (ps3) all the time and as the container is opening my brain registers the empty part...but ya the game does seem to minimize everything remotely difficult in order to keep your 'sword swinging'...

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:19 am

You don't know its empty until you've hovered the mouse over it so you have to examine it to some extent. To me this is just nitpicking :shrug:

This. When I see the 'empty' label, I just think of my character going through and nudging the barrel/sack with their foot or jiggling it a little with their hand and realizing there's no point in opening it. Going down a row of barrels, nudge, nudge, nudge, hey, this one is heavy. *check*

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:15 pm

If your low on health,your heart starts beating faster and louder and your characters vision gets hazy. As for magicka and stamina....I guess if you cant cast a spell anymore,you'll just have to assume you have no magicka left. Same for stamina if you cant power attack or run anymore.

this turn off the hud idea is foolish. im playing as a mage on master and if i fail a spell because i have no magic left im probly dead, EVERY second counts.

they could easily patch in different check boxes for the hud elements.

...and make the quest log better in an afternoon of typing, but......

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:59 pm

But doesn't it? The player knows by sight that a container is empty ~when the PC should not... but behaves as if they do. They unerringly open only those boxes with items in them.

Consider if the boxes in a room were sometimes trapped. Any box that was empty would never trick the Player. Imagine if the barrels in Diablo had been labeled empty.
(Worse: Imagine if the boxes in TES were labeled "Trapped" and "Empty")

I don't really care if they have an indication that it's empty. I often check anyways out of habit. But if they are hellbent on giving one, I'd much rather it be some sort of visual indicator like I suggested than an "empty" sign popping up when I get close to it.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:56 pm

I don't really care if they have an indication that it's empty. I often check anyways out of habit. But if they are hellbent on giving one, I'd much rather it be some sort of visual indicator like I suggested than an "empty" sign popping up when I get close to it.

Agreed.

*But it'd be nice to have a check box in the settings to disable the labels.