what game doesn't have flaws?

But I'm the opposite of the OP. The more I play it the more I enjoy it.

I have three characters in the game and they different approaches.

My first character is a smooth talker to get out of fights or try to.

My second character loves bashing things, hate guns and suicide mutants. Every gun she finds scrap and make good bashing weapons from scrap guns. She loves power armour.

My third character playing on survivor mode I have to throw the rule book out from my first two characters and play differently. I have a nice watermelon patch coming up to. Why do watermelon leaves looks like pumpkin leaves?

First two character takes half an hour to clear a building from raiders.

With third character the same building and lot of dying. (I no good at Dead Is Dead) Mines is my best friend.

The most disappointing parts how is it so easily to obtain dog and power armour early on in this game but in the last game FO3 is later on because of location and requirements .

BTW: The day of lasts is upon me.

Sorry, this made me lol.

Every military ground vehicle, and most military aircraft have these exact restrictions or worse. Our VTOL aircraft can hover for 15 minutes before their fuel is expired. The Abrams tank holds 500 gallons of fuel and can only go 265 miles on that.


A fusion core would be a revolutionary breakthrough in the real world and your got dang right the military would use it. 500 gallons of fuel vs. A small halfheld core. No brainer!

Exactly. And from what I've seen, what they have done to it is alter it in such a way that they have made a successful product that is raking in millions of dollars. And they did that by doing whatever they felt like. A few upset fans in a game forum will not change that.

Well said. Truth is stranger than fiction. Behold --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA

The haters are lucky that they were respectful enough to have went to adifferent side of the country so they wouldn't stepon west coast lore. It would be well within their right to just retcon what they don't like.

To the OP or anyone else if playing a game that you are getting burned out on or if it is genre just take a break from it and come back to it if you have the urge to play. At the moment I am getting burned out on playing Bethesda games at the moment and I now have the urge to play Diablo 3 and possibly Rebel Galaxy, Torchlight 1 and 2, and Grim Dawn.

I still love FO4, and the other Bethesda games, I just do not know when I will be playing it a lot since the last time I had the Diablo bug it lasted about 13 years. Well I only had the Diablo bug once.

I know I don't like what Bethesda did with BOS

The BOS is my favorite faction in FO4 hands down, and as I've said, I don't even like Power Armor.

I agree with the complaints about the dialogue wheel and the lack of desire to build new characters. Oblivion, Fallout 3 and NV were highlights for me building new characters, while Skyrim and FO4 quickly kill off the desire to role play new characters. That is just probably the high level cap and Beth's design decisions.

However, I love my female FO4 character more than any other in a Beth game so in some strange way I am enjoying this game more than any other and cannot stop. The female voice actor suits my character to a tee and I will play this game for a loooong time.

375 hours.

Still enjoying it.

Your mileage may vary.

That doesn't mean that it is right.

On the other hand I'm not sure if it is all one person's fault. Marketing department is more often behind such decisions. But I never saw any interviews or EA3, so I don't know who is responsible for what part of the game. But I would really like to know. It would be interesting to read something about what the designers themself really think. Esp. those who wrote the best parts of the game (for me) like Goodneighbor or Diamond city.

I think the biggest weakness of their games is that they try to please all kinds of fans and sometimes the mix doesn't work as it could.

There's always one of these.

Eventually, the more i have played any game the less I liked it... I would still be playing Adventure on the Atari 2600 otherwise.

I feel like FO4 has everything the previous fallouts had but with more depth and breadth--- from companions and factions to weapons, armor, and crafting.

I enjoy the settlement building. I occasionally do radiant quests when very bored. If I did not then I would not do them. That is the good thing about an open world game:

- Leave settlers pissed off and impoverished or build them lavish castles.

- Heed Preston's every suggestion, ignore him, or beat him to death with a pool cue and embark on a massive multi-settlement purge (I did) and see what happens.

That's the fun of open world games. If you are complaining about characters making "demands" on you then I think you fail to perceive who your boss really is.

The factions literally don't pay you enough to care about their missions if you don't have to and you never have to suffer the existence of annoying characters if you are willing to pay the costs of their murder.

Breaking left and burning bridges can infuse some empowerment and joy into your game. I highly recommend it. My character 1 has now made enemies of all factions. The relentless random altercations have kept it interesting beyond the main quest completion for me.

I agree, the sole survivor's voice is annoying. I must admit however that i find many of the dialogue choices clever and entertaining. Telling someone "You're useless" never seems to get old for me.

All of that said, games like this without a multi-player option will burn out faster, no getting around it. That does not change my opinion that FO4 is my favorite open world rpg I've ever played. I can still find entertainment with my level 100 primary character with a little imagination.

According to the game's clock, I just crossed the 12 day mark, though I'm sure it's more realistically 14 days, given several reloads I've done.

While some people argue about the story, I don't play games for a story. If I wanted an in-depth, character building story, I'd read a book, not play a game. Honestly, I'm pretty sick of reading this as an excuse when it comes to games. Whatever happened to the notion the player is the story? Minecraft has no story yet it's one of the best selling games in recent memory.

I'm a graphics junkie, and have always been a graphics junkie. Yes, I know they don't make the game, but let's not kid ourselves and pretend they don't have an influence. Fallout 4 is a damn beautiful game and each sunset is appreciated given the wonderful cast of light the area takes as it sets. Sunrises are also awesome, and just stopping to take an hour to watch them is still enjoyable.

Despite countless nuclear storms, they still freak me out. Despite seeing every enemy the game can throw at me, they still keep me on edge. Immersion. It's underrated, I think, but this game still has me checking my underpants despite carrying weapons that can destroy the Commonwealth six times over.

While I do see the game's teasing it's about to come to a close, I've elected to flip off this teasing and continue doing what I do best: helping people and building settlements. A time-killing extra in the game which probably accounts for a good 40% of the clock's time, and I don't regret a single second of it.

It's unlikely I will roll a new character, simply because this game no longer locks me into a specific rule of "completion". No level caps. Many settlements to build. Many enemies to kill. The BoS, RR, and Institute can wait a few more years before they do what they need to do. In the meantime, Preston will tell me the same settlement I've been to 20 times already has yet another kidnapping, and I'm going to save them yet again.

Hopefully while the sun is setting or rising, because what's not to love about walking in the Commonwealth.

This being said, the game is far from perfect, and I do have a few issues with it, but it's still enjoyable and it has definitely been worth the price I paid for it.

For those upset with the game, there's always Minecraft.

Wow, Violynne, yours was one of the best posts I've read in a while! I love everything you said and find the game equally immersive.

Games don't have to have stories. What's the story of bloody knuckles, or mumbletypeg? On the other hand, Minecraft has never been *marketed* as a story. Anybody selling a game with "RPG" in the description is selling the *idea* of participating in a story, deliberately referencing tabletop RPG systems that were largely designed for the express purpose of collaborative storytelling, and referencing the video games that followed after them.


An "RPG" with poorly conceived, poorly delivered, or a simply neglected story and story participation system is wandering pretty far afield from what the label implies, at least to people who have experience with the conventions and implications of the RPG concept. Player expectation is shaped by hype and history. Developers who don't want to tell us stories shouldn't try to sell the idea of playing roles, they should stick to games that have the customer playing ciphers, or manipulating and exploring systems. Developers who do want to tell us stories should decide early whether or not we're going to have real agency to direct that story. If so, then we're playing a role. If not, then we're riding behind the eyes of a specific character. Both are fine. The second option is not role playing, in my opinion. It's more like reading a book than sitting down for a session with a bag of dice and being challenged to co-create.

That's not the only aspect of RPGs, and not even the first. Where Bethesda RPGs have always excelled in is the depth of character building, and the variety of valid ways to play their games - and that's as much "filling a role" as deciding your character's personality or making story choices. Their RPGs have never really emphasized storytelling, especially not making heavy choices that make an impact on the world (which, incidentally, Fallout 4 does more than any other Bethesda RPG)

I disagree. I think story and story telling is the paramount and defining attribute of the genre, although you're right to say it's not the only one. It loops back to 'pen and paper' gaming. What Bethesda offers is the opportunity to min-max stats. I don't think that qualifies as character building, (either in pen and paper games or in video games) but we clearly disagree on that. I see that as ticking a box, not building a character. You can run an RPG session with no stats and no character sheets (I've done it as a player and as DM), but you certainly can't run one without a story unless your group just wants to chill and do math while thumbing through sourcebooks.

WOW HOW MANY FOOLISH COMMENTS WILL BE ON THIS POST???!! Don't repeat quests if you don't like them?? well what if he doesn't like the majority then he has little to play therefore his dislike for the game is valid for him personally..... And of course the writing is better than 3's emil is a genius and could only do better. The reactions to the players actions were horrible though.... That comment about bethesda's fallouts having great character depth is a joke you are always a certain character playing out a certain story with vary little difference other than how you choose to fight enemies and the major (with some minor) plot decision making that does actually affect the wasteland. Idk what you are saying when you say that does not happen it's ridiculous. Blowing up megaton? allowing the ghouls to enter tenpenny tower?Completely messing up the whole water purification mission come on man... 4 has more yeah i guess since thats what the whole ending is all about lol...The comment about games not being about telling a story LOL GTFO YA GOOF! If the game is centered mostly around a story and not the gameplay and you ruin the story (not saying they did i like the story) but make the gameplay slightly better you have just ruined the game!!! And to the comments about the length of time you play and enjoying the game omg the most foolish of all!!!!! Can you not listen to a song more and more and continue to enjoy it and even start to find minor details you didn't fully hear or notice somehow that now make the song even better?? PLZ STOP YOU JOKES!!! And can you not have played for a long time just to see everything there was to see and then think about it and say yeah everything was just meh or bad? Or are you the fool that thinks that "professional" reviews are properly done when they only have 20 to 50 hours played LOL ya jokesters plz smh.... Like nemorov and any none jokester would tell you the game is dominated by settlements, exploring, and the main radiant quests... there are little to no side quests that are repeatable because they're not able to be done in enough of a different way that would make it interesting. Also sorry if you thought i was being mean for calling you jokesters no hard feelings but you are jokesters especially the guy who said it was sad for op to play and not like the game you are sad for being on forums and arguing nonsense yes? Plz you jokesters who respond in such a jokester manner go attempt to become a professional comedian and not bombard a place of discussion with meaningless negativity that brings nothing beneficial to the discussions also ps i have 200 hours on the game was fun thx emil and todd and the rest of the team hope some type of political influence ability is added as dlc to make settlements feel more purposeful was fun though and possibly more houses to buy (buy out the cabot house???) so much money (in game not braggin) and nothing to do with it ALSO MAKE THE UNARMED COMBAT MOVES DO DAMAGE BASED ON STRENGTH AND UNARMED PERK OMG!!!!

I'm not saying that there aren't DMs that create intricate stories in their tabletop games and are lucky enough to have players that want to participate in heavy storytelling, but most of my experience with tabletop RPGs is that they promote more character development than anything else. There's a light outline of a story, but the majority of time is spent delving into dungeons, ruined towers...basically anywhere that the DM can throw monsters at the party...and then the players (assuming that they don't die) get levels for their characters and spend time figuring out their perks, spells, gold for new equipment and whatnot. Combat takes a *long* time with all the dice rolling and everyone taking turns deciding how they want to proceed. There is *way* more story in Fallout 4 than in any tabletop game I've experienced. Sure, I would have loved to find groups that didn't focus almost entirely on combat and character development, but tabletop groups in general are few and far between as it is. When I have visited tabletop forums, a lot of the discussion is figuring out (or arguing over) the rulesets and min-maxing characters. It's often not the storytelling nirvana that some would try to have us believe.

What I'm getting at is that that's not character development, it's spreadsheet development. It's often the case that when we settle for something subpar, we'll convince ourselves that there's nothing better available, and then go on to try to convince other people that they should also settle. If you don't want to play with hack and slash gamers whose chief thrill is seeing how many d20's they can roll at once...well: Don't play with them. Rules forums attract rules lawyers, the same way game forums attract people who are opinionated about game mechanics. Don't like them? Don't frequent them.


Storytelling is where you find it, or where you make it. If you can't find a storyteller, for Hoirans sake become one. If you can't find enough players for a large party, don't tell a story that requires a large party. You only need two people with firing neurons to make it happen. If you don't want to spend six hours figuring out who killed who in the battle of the seventeeth floor of the Ultimately Evil Donjon of Evilness, then don't tell that story, and don't help someone else tell it.


Choose your own adventure! Don't let some fat bastard in a corporate office convince you that role playing is just accountancy with funny hats.

First fallout game for me, I'm on my second play through, played 96 hours on the first, learned from my mistakes an built a better character second time around. Total between the two save files I might have somewhere in the neighborhood of 140 hours, can't pry myself from it long enough to play any of the other games I got when I bought my xbox one.

Nevertheless, that's what people typically mean when they talk about developing their characters, and not with things like how they grow psychologically (unless of course there's a game stat devoted to it.) I also should have included that the games I've experienced have been more about strategy than storyteling as well. Most people who play tabletop that I've known really enjoy strategizing how to succeed against difficult foes, which makes sense because many of those players were also heavily into wargaming and miniatures.

Actually, I don't play tabletop RPGs anymore for a variety of reasons, but may get back to it one day. Who knows.

What I appreciate most about Bethesda's games, including Fallout 4, is that they create wonderful environments for us to be able to create our *own* stories for our characters, which seem to be far more RPG in a sense than many of the more story-based games out there. Sure, they give us some pre-made stories as well in the form of quests, but these are optional, including the main quest. And best of all, I don't have other people there telling me how I need to play or that I'm not doing something right or feeling like I need to play how other people want to play so as not to cause problems within the social group.

Storytelling can be a part of RPGs, and in some cases larger than others, but it's never been *the* defining feature. I don't think there really is a defining feature of an RPG.

Familiarity breeds Contempt, and parts of Fallout 4 are too easy to get familiar with.

Want to find X-01 Power Armor, too bad Faction Questlines often send a new character right to the places it could spawn early in the Faction Questline.

It has a lot of replayability, but I would like a Second location besides the Corvega Assembly Plant to clear as the first Minuteman Quest again.