Origins was fantastic. But 2 wasn't so great. Now I didn't hate it as much as everyone else in the internetz did, but it wasn't remotely as good as Origins was.

Here's hoping the DA3 will get back to the roots of the game.

I honestly would like to see a return to Dragon Age Origins combat system. It felt better.

Thats pretty much all that needs to be said... well said

agreed

this.

Couldn't disagree more

Bioware said it was a spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate in that regard it was a flop. It tried to reinnovate the RPG genre and ended up as the most linear game ever with no real consequences to your choices. That is Origins mind you. Taking away BW's ambition DA:O was actually an OK game but far from great. Then DA 2 happened....

Anyone who doesn't like MMOs and thinks they will enjoy this game is asking to be disappointed, Zenimax aims to please elder scrolls fans but the game is still an MMO.

I'd be playing skyrim right now if I could stomach another round of "kill dragon, go to high Hrothgar, go get the stupid horn that's not there, blah blah blah" People are really overstating a single player TES games longevity. This mmo will have more content and better content additions than another single player TES game.

As for swtor being a flop. Just the personal story part of swtor is truly better than any single player experience I ever had. there is a phenomenal amount of content there. That is what they set out to do and they did that part very well.

I have mixed feelings about this. Sometimes I feel like I wish skyrim was just a co-op game, or even a small scale game where you could play against other people; something like 8 or 16 people total. But that doesn't really need to be a separate game. I don't see why that functionality couldn't just be built into TES VI, which is surely on the way (although probably not anytime soon).

Another strange thing to me is the extent to which fans of elder scrolls demand the game be very elder scrolls-ish. I understand the impulse, as I love elder scrolls games too. But you don't see a lot of MMO fans barging into the forums loudly proclaiming that this game must be just like an MMO, and can't make any compromises with the TES side. I'm a fan of both MMO's and elder scrolls, but I find the elder scrolls fan base to be a little...off putting. They're extremely protective of their product, and extremely dismissive of any other type of game. A game like this is going to be a compromise. Is it going to "feel" like an elder scrolls game? I don't know. It would probably depend on the individual. But there are some people who think that the number goal of this game should be to "feel like a TES game", and that is surely not the number one goal, nor should it be. If you think it strays too far into MMO territory, or you don't like MMO's period, well, there's not just else to say other than too bad. That's what this game is. If you don't like it, you can wait until TES VI.

actually yea you see the mmo people demanding large fully implemented raids with gear progression and alternative small scale pvp modes all the time. Oh and the vanity clothing people are here. and the open pvp people too. Its all the mmo crowd.

Some people just want every Elder Scrolls game to be single player with maybe some optional co-op mode. And as long as we share a forum with the gamesas and its community I don't think we will ever get very far from that.

Those are decent points I suppose, but they couch the language differently; they aren't saying "this isn't enough like an MMO". I also think it's different because I think the motivations are different. TES fans want the game to feel like a TES game because they have an emotional attachment to it. I think the people advocating for things like gear progression and raiding do it because they think it's important to make the game viable long term. I'm not saying they're always right about these things. But it feels like the motivations are different.

It doesn't indeed.

Dude, Dragon Age Origins was awesome!! Yeah BG was brilliant... but you gotta give Dragon Age Origins Kudos

I think what they meant is that many people loved Dragon Age 1 but many of those people that loved the first game, hated the second. I thought it wasn't nearly as fun as the first, but I still thought it was a good game.

As for MMO's. I think Star Wars wasn't a total failure, and I think it's still going solidly. I blame EA for all of Bioware's downfalls in recent years, as they only started to slide down in quality once EA bought Bioware. (EA treats their workers horribly from what I've heard, from people in the industry.)

I think ESO will do well. I think people want a great, new, innovative game. A game they don't have to compare to WoW, a game that will set a new standard in quality.

While I respect your opinion I 100% diagree with every word you said. Here me out as to why:

1st I am an older gamer, and I was playing games before there was a "Pong" or any other console system so my reasoning might be biased because of this. I have always preferred RPG's and I got started with D&D back in 1982 when I was in high school, this was before the advent of any console game so if I wanted to play a video game I had to go to the arcade and play Pacman, Digdug and other similar games. And even though I enjoyed them they were never as entertaining as sitting around my Mom's kitchen table playing D&D with a few neighbor kids. Given the opportunity to either play a game like D&D and later Cyberpunk, Twilight 2000, Shadowrun, Marvel Heros, and Warhammer for RPG's or Axis and Allies, Fortress America, and Shogun for boardgames over going to the arcade and playing a bunch of single player games. I would choose the former every single time. There is just somethign magical of playing a game, what ever game it maybe, with friends and/or other like minded individuals. Hell you can even corralate this into sporting games. I often shot basketball or hit the wiffleball by myself but they were always more fun with a small group.

To me MMOPRG's are an extension of all these types of games, especially games like D&D since at their heart they are RPG's but RPG's like anything game related is way more fun with others and for the last 14+ years I have treated MMO's like an extension of my Pen & Paper RPG's of the early 1980's. I own a console, but I never hardly play it, unless my brother comes to visit then we break out the NBA2K or Maddon NFL to play heads up. Again a single player game made better (IMO) when played with others. This is why I will always play an MMO as my primary game of choice and it is the reason why I have never finished a TES game, because I inevitably get bored wishing I could play this with others.

Also you need to realize the beauty of an MMO, especially the newer ones is that it allows single players or solo play to exist and one need not associate with others to enjoy.

So in essence its win/win for all involved.



I started paying Skyrim again a few weeks back and I feel the same way, but I am forcing through because one, I am MMO'less at the moment and two I want to get to finish the storyline and learn more about the lore so I am more prepared for when ESO launches later this year.


Two reasons IMO why this game could flop, 1 it releases as a Pay to Play subscription model, that in and of itself will do more harm in the long run cause it will alienate those who see subscription games as being niche. Second, the systems end up not working or some of the core TES style gameplay elements get rushed through.

The reason this game has attracted alot of attention is because its Elder Scrolls, ONLINE. The single greatest request that has gone unheeded for many years.

I love MMO's and I love TES. I would love a great TES MMO, but I haven't actually played yet, so I have no clue how the game feels. All we can do right now is pick apart small things, but those small things make up a whole that we don't have a feel for how they fit together yet.

I have loved TES games from Daggerfall through Skyrim. It is the closest I have felt to a real D&D type of environment.

I also had a love for MMOs. Had being the optimal word. As of late, I can not find one that does not bore me to death within a few weeks.

Will making a TES MMO ruin the feel of what a TES is supposed to feel like. Probably. It might have enough TES "feel"in it, so I won't feel upset I'm playing a poor man's version.

Will the TES style improve my view of how a MMO can be made? I would like to think so. From what I have seen, I might be able to stick around for a while.

Bottom line is, I think it will be a slightly worse version of TES then what I would like, but a better version of an MMO. In my mind, that is okay.

It's funny you say that because I discovered Morrowind when I was looking for a single player equivalent of the original Everquest. Something that had that same large, open world with tons of quests that did not require groups. A game where I did not have to wait in line for my chance to kill rare mobs.

With TESO it has come full circle I guess.

hmm not waiting and killing rare mobs... if you didn't have to wait you usually wont be killing rare mobs... and yes i know you are referring to waiting in a line but its an MMO so you will (or at least should) have to fit in and around other players! I HOPE that TESO goes back down this path of making rare mobs rare, using Place holders for names in Public areas so you get that epic feeling of victory once you have spent ages trying to get a rare spawn and finally get it!! I remember soooo many times bolting like crazy to get to Ancient Cyclops for the Jman Boots cause a friend has dropped a tell saying its up, then you get there to find there are other people hunting it, then its an epic race to find him int he zone first Good times... (i lost the race a lot, so when i finally got him it was an awesome feeling!

For me it was partly the hard work aspect of EQ that made it the amazing game it was... you don't play EQ to have things handed to you on a platter...

Waiting?
You won't have to wait if it's...
*dramatic thunder clap*
instanced.

In my opinion they are bastardizing the ES lore like WoW has destroyed the Warcraft lore. Even though I wish to see how Hammerfell or Black Marsh looks like, I cannot shake the feeling that ES should not be an MMO.

Often, those who say "true fans will _____" simply do not value their own opinion enough to make the statement otherwise.

Don't drag others into your insecure opinion.

WoW's lore only took a different route. Illidan being killed by 25 people seems odd, does it? Was perfectly doable in WC3.

People seem to think, that when lore CHANGES (heavens forbid) the story is being ruined. Well, sorry to break it to anyone who thinks that, but that's how stories form. People rise to power, and then eventually die.

I can see issues with 25 people pushing KJ back into the portal, but you have to remember, that Gul'dan was a warlock, and players are warlocks. Thinking of the people in the raid as 'nobodies' is nothing other than how an actual story unfolds. People say the hero is a nobody, and will add up to nothing, yet in the end he/she pulls off something amazing.

People should wrap their heads around the fact that EVERY CHARACTER has a story of their own. Just because others have done the story as well, doesn't mean they're not where they're at.

Lore junkies tend to be incredibly narrow-minded when it comes to change. They exclude the possibilities that these player characters might actually be 'powerful'.

Now, to an extent, I do agree....I hate how a Grummel in blades edge mountain could kill a molten core boss. But for crying out loud...let the story change.

While it might be premature of me to say so - it does seem that Bethesda/Zeni seem to know the secret of the industry is to NOT gamble an @$$ton of money on a risky venture (EA's SW:ToR being an example).

From what I've read and seen, ES:O isn't a massively disgusting gamble of a money sinkhole like SW:ToR was where they literally shoved it out the door telling Bioware "OK, we've spent ENOUGH money on it!". Sure, ES:O costs money, but even SW:ToR made up its dev costs the first month... and I read earlier that Zeni has saved up enough cash over the years (Gasp! Economics 101!!) to fund this side-project for a few years without incurring a big loss.