Todd's DICE Keynote - "Game Jam" - Holy crap.

Post » Mon May 21, 2012 10:02 pm

You underestimate how difficult and time-consuming game development is. Sure, in a week a person can add spears, for example... but integrating it into the game and releasing it on time is a hugely different thing. Spears, for example: beyond what was added in that one week, on top of that they'd have to design, model, implement, and distribute 8 types of spears (one for each material type) and then do the same for a few unique special spears. They also have to develop, code, etc. an entire perk tree that revolves around spears and spear-based abilities (the current 2-handed perk tree is designed around slashing and swinging motions, and could not be used for spears). New lines would have to be recorded that refer to spears, and NPC-specific spear-using code would have to be devised. Kill animations for spears would need to be added.

And every bit of that has to be debugged and balanced, which takes at least twice as long as the actual implementation. We're talking months of work to add a single weapon type.

So, no. You should not expect everything in the video to have been included in Skyrim on release.

Don't mean to pick on you specifically, as there are a lot of people voicing similar opinions in this forum. But it's something I had to get off my chest.

They should obviously have pushed back the release date to make more time.

/trollface.jpg
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Vicki Gunn
 
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Post » Mon May 21, 2012 11:17 pm

I would not object to anything from the GameJam making its way into Skyrim. Especially that water shader :drool:
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Glu Glu
 
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Post » Mon May 21, 2012 4:09 pm

You underestimate how difficult and time-consuming game development is. Sure, in a week a person can add spears, for example... but integrating it into the game and releasing it on time is a hugely different thing. Spears, for example: beyond what was added in that one week, on top of that they'd have to design, model, implement, and distribute 8 types of spears (one for each material type) and then do the same for a few unique special spears. They also have to develop, code, etc. an entire perk tree that revolves around spears and spear-based abilities (the current 2-handed perk tree is designed around slashing and swinging motions, and could not be used for spears). New lines would have to be recorded that refer to spears, and NPC-specific spear-using code would have to be devised. Kill animations for spears would need to be added.

And every bit of that has to be debugged and balanced, which takes at least twice as long as the actual implementation. We're talking months of work to add a single weapon type.

So, no. You should not expect everything in the video to have been included in Skyrim on release.

Don't mean to pick on you specifically, as there are a lot of people voicing similar opinions in this forum. But it's something I had to get off my chest.

I'd certainly agree with most of your post. That said, there were some that just seem so... I don't know. Basic or obvious? Like footprints in the snow. That one strikes me as something that should have been included from the beginning. The snow is there. It just seems odd that you don't leave footprints behind you.
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Nims
 
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Post » Tue May 22, 2012 4:39 am

I wonder, given how they added a lycanthropy perk tree in that week, what does that say about the possibility of adding new (and conditional) perk trees? The UI itself for perks doesn't seem very flexible... so was it just a hack-job to get it shown, or is there a way to extend the number of perk trees beyond the default set?

I'd imagine such a thing would require manual changes to the flash menu for skills, which would kinda stink. It'd be completely unmaintainable with more custom perk trees that would get added. I'd love to be wrong, though, with there being some kind of plugable interface.
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Hearts
 
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Post » Tue May 22, 2012 4:05 am

Freakin awesome stuff man!
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Soku Nyorah
 
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Post » Mon May 21, 2012 5:10 pm

Varlet surfaces! That looked insane! The giant just coming through the trees like that.

Sadly I think that was one of the ones that would really be quite difficult for us to implement on our own.

:'(
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meg knight
 
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Post » Tue May 22, 2012 3:17 am

I really liked the dark dungeons. Exploring them would be much more terrifying.
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Andrew Perry
 
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Post » Mon May 21, 2012 9:11 pm

I really liked the dark dungeons. Exploring them would be much more terrifying.

Well, http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=7654 does just that, so knock yourself out :P
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Katie Louise Ingram
 
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Post » Mon May 21, 2012 10:31 pm

This makes you wonder why they left all of this stuff out.

SPEARS. EVERYBODY WANTED SPEARS. WHY DID YOU LEAVE THEM OUT, TODD HOWARD?
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Laura Shipley
 
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Post » Tue May 22, 2012 7:19 am

This is why Bethesda is awesome.

I wonder, given how they added a lycanthropy perk tree in that week, what does that say about the possibility of adding new (and conditional) perk trees? The UI itself for perks doesn't seem very flexible... so was it just a hack-job to get it shown, or is there a way to extend the number of perk trees beyond the default set?

I'd imagine such a thing would require manual changes to the flash menu for skills, which would kinda stink. It'd be completely unmaintainable with more custom perk trees that would get added. I'd love to be wrong, though, with there being some kind of plugable interface.
It's possible the maker just replaced an existing perk tree, rather than creating a new one.
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Lalla Vu
 
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Post » Mon May 21, 2012 8:40 pm

http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/thumb/2/2d/Trollface_HD.png/618px-Trollface_HD.png

It's true! I think Skyrim could have used more time, but at some point they have to release, because a creative developer can add stuff for all eternity before running out of changes he wants to make. Also there's business reasons and the whole 11/11/11 release date hype and all that.

I'd certainly agree with most of your post. That said, there were some that just seem so... I don't know. Basic or obvious? Like footprints in the snow. That one strikes me as something that should have been included from the beginning. The snow is there. It just seems odd that you don't leave footprints behind you.

True that. Unfortunately much of that just gets left behind when they have so much else on their plate such as, say, making quests work properly (something that still needs work, even after 1.4, I'd wager). Same goes for the improved underwater effects... frankly, Skyrim's underwater viewpoint is pretty pathetic. Sadly it's a matter of choosing which corners to cut, as opposed to whether to cut corners or not.

I wonder, given how they added a lycanthropy perk tree in that week, what does that say about the possibility of adding new (and conditional) perk trees? The UI itself for perks doesn't seem very flexible... so was it just a hack-job to get it shown, or is there a way to extend the number of perk trees beyond the default set?

I have high hopes, because already people are adding new branches and perks to perk trees.
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James Hate
 
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Post » Tue May 22, 2012 6:09 am

Well, http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=7654 does just that, so knock yourself out :tongue:
For now Im on 360. :(
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john palmer
 
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Post » Tue May 22, 2012 12:43 am

For now Im on 360. :(

It's ok. Being able to play Dark Souls compensates for no Skyrim mods. :sad:
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Amber Hubbard
 
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Post » Mon May 21, 2012 11:54 pm

More proof, if needed, that when people work on their own idea rather on stuff they're told to do, they can be more creative, productive and the end result is better. Damn, I'm writing this from my office while I'm bored!
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Dona BlackHeart
 
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Post » Tue May 22, 2012 4:57 am

Yes. Yes! YES!! Please release these as more free DLC Bethesda!

http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/thumb/2/2d/Trollface_HD.png/618px-Trollface_HD.png

You have to be careful with that trollface on these forums... Some of the moderators really dislike it.
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Claudia Cook
 
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Post » Mon May 21, 2012 6:29 pm

Well, http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=7654 does just that, so knock yourself out :P
Only downside is that it makes non-Khajiit thieves nearly impossible, as the only way to see anything without their Night-Eye racial is to put a light on yourself. Though now with the CK, I imagine there'll be mods to bring back night-eye potions and enchantments.

A werewolf will still be tricky, though, since they have no way to get night-eye or anything (funny enough, the WerewolfBeastRace does have an explicit night-eye lesser power defined for it... but there's no way to activate it since they're locked out of the menus and there's no other available casting key; Left and right attacks are occupied by claws, and the power/shout is occupied by the howl). I wonder if Papyrus is able to send action events to scripts (e.g., when the player presses 'crouch'), to alert the werewolf control script and toggle the night-eye power.
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Brad Johnson
 
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Post » Tue May 22, 2012 6:37 am

Only downside is that it makes non-Khajiit thieves nearly impossible, as the only way to see anything without their Night-Eye racial is to put a light on yourself. Though now with the CK, I imagine there'll be mods to bring back night-eye potions and enchantments.

Not at all, I play a Breton and the dungeons are really dark, but I've never really needed any light, except for those really dark corners
when I get disarmed, otherwise I use the sticky mage light, so I can cast it down a hallway and stick it on the wall of a room if need be.
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Ymani Hood
 
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Post » Mon May 21, 2012 7:51 pm

More proof, if needed, that when people work on their own idea rather on stuff they're told to do, they can be more creative, productive and the end result is better. Damn, I'm writing this from my office while I'm bored!

There's a nice Apple http://www.nucalc.com/Story/ about the phenomenon.

As for the troll face, it is relevant to my meaning. I'm not going to start using irony marks? Oops?
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Katy Hogben
 
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Post » Tue May 22, 2012 1:07 am

Why weren't footprints in snow included... :(

Awesome speech. :D
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Rob Smith
 
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Post » Tue May 22, 2012 3:19 am

Well Bethesda has done something that I thought they would never do ... and that is make a DLC just for computers.

Hopefully some or all of this stuff can be included in DLC - like spear fighting, etc. I can now see them actually making an enhanced play DLC - with just game play improvements.

But I'm not holding my breath.
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sophie
 
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Post » Mon May 21, 2012 10:24 pm

Well Bethesda has done something that I thought they would never do ... and that is make a DLC just for computers.

Hopefully some or all of this stuff can be included in DLC - like spear fighting, etc. I can now see them actually making an enhanced play DLC - with just game play improvements.

But I'm not holding my breath.

If you're talking about the hi-res pack, I'd consider that more of "Holding it back from computers", then releasing it later because the consoles couldn't handle those textures, and/or they wouldn't fit on a DVD
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lolli
 
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Post » Mon May 21, 2012 5:27 pm

Aside from the seasonal foliage and possibly snow footprints all that other stuff can be done. Mounted combat might be a tad hard though, took years for it to be implemented in Oblivion.

Man, why didn't they put goblins in?
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Dezzeh
 
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Post » Mon May 21, 2012 11:49 pm

Aside from the seasonal foliage and possibly snow footprints all that other stuff can be done. Mounted combat might be a tad hard though, took years for it to be implemented in Oblivion.

Man, why didn't they put goblins in?

Mounted Combat was in Two Worlds on release date, although some other parts of the game were kind of dopey
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Jaki Birch
 
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Post » Tue May 22, 2012 6:42 am

Giant mudcrabs? Magic combination?! Vampire and werewolf support? Stealth support? SKELETAL BUTLER?! DRAGON MOUNTS?!

It's just....Moving platforms, dark dungeons, mounted combat, flowing curren--

Just sell it all and take my damn money already.
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Laura Mclean
 
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Post » Mon May 21, 2012 7:23 pm

If you're talking about the hi-res pack, I'd consider that more of "Holding it back from computers", then releasing it later because the consoles couldn't handle those textures, and/or they wouldn't fit on a DVD
Fine whatever ... so now they are holding back horse combat ... so?

Why does it have to be framed in terms of how we all got ripped off and jipped?
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Gracie Dugdale
 
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