I agree. If you read the journals you retrieve from the Thalmor Embassy (part of a Blades questline) you learn that the Thalmor had broken Ulfric and turned him into their pawn. The Thalmor wanted and needed the civil war to continue, to keep the Empire weakened and divided.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1249697-on-boethiahs-summoning-day/page__view__findpost__p__19025989

No, it really isn't. Talos worship doesn't stop, it just goes underground. Legate Rikke is a Talos worshipper, as you find out upon executing Ulfric. Heimskr is still allowed to preach in Whiterun. The 'ban' is just a temporary thing, and doesn't really have any teeth - the Empire doesn't enforce it, only the Thalmor. When the Empire regains its strength, Talos (and the Nine) worship will be restored. The Thalmor are beyond foolish for thinking it can be eliminated.

Also, interesting to note, the Thalmor (with the exception of the occasional Justicar ambush) mysteriously disappeared from Skyrim after the Civil War ended with the Empire victorious. The ones in Understone Keep are gone. There are none at the Thalmor Headquarters in Solitude. The Embassy is completely empty (no guards, the barracks are empty). I have yet to see a prisoner escort, and I've been looking. Not sure this is anyone else's experience, but it seems to me that they know they're [censored]ed and GTFO. And since they're the only ones that enforce the 'ban', Talos worshiping will return.

Also, the last 'pillar' holding Mundus in place is the Throat of the World. This is one reason why I will not side with the Blades to kill Parthunaax.

Also, to quote Legate Hrollod: "What the rebels like to forget, is that the Empire is what's keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim." The Empire are still enemies of the Dominion. Return them to power, and the evil Aldmeri Dominion will be destroyed.

Symbolism is rather important for mythical beings(To quote Sheogorath, symbols are everything). Being cut out of the pantheon is quite damaging to Talos, even if you're secretly worshipping him. Hell there's even imperial propaganda that was written to influence the belief that Talos isn't even a god. This IS damaging to Talos.

The fact of the matter is, the empire is currently under terrible leadership. There was no reason to surrender when they did. If they wanted a treaty they should have made an actual non-aggression treaty. The WGC is a conditional surrender of the Empire at a time when their enemy was unable to attack or even muster any forces.

Possibly with things could change, but the current empire is in no shape or form able to fight the thalmor. They've been letting their spies roam freely through their lands. Subterfuge is the big reason the Thalmor were so successful in the war, and now they're allowing them to do it openly. Mede abandoned every other province when the IC was threatened. The only reason the empire still remains is because one general disobeyed Mede.

There's still Ada-Mantia, and possibilities of Green-Sap(Doubtful), and Walk-Brass(Apparently still attacking Summerset outside of time) still being active, there's also a good chance that the hist as a whole are a tower given their immense root system.

What the empire likes to forget is that they're the reason the dominion is IN skyrim.

Like I said, the Dominion is NOT in Skyrim. They left after the Civil War ended, with the Empire victorious. They are nowhere around, with the exception of the random event assassins.

Cecilff, those are not official or in-game reference but pure fan fiction. While it makes for interesting reading you can't quote that as a reason for why we can't kill the Stormcloaks. I have not found one scrap of evidence inside the world of Skyrim to support this theory. And no, Butterfly jar lids don't count.

Try not to confuse before and after.

You can finish the war for either side, but the embassy won't empty until you get to that part of the main quest. The empire IS why the dominion is in skyrim at all.

The first one is from a previous dev who constantly works with the Beth team as a freelancer. Much of his work appeared in Skyrim.

The second one is a developer of the game. It isn't fanfiction. The devs post in the lore forums now and then.

I had finished the main quest before I finished the Civil War, and there were guards at the embassy. It wasn't until after the Civil War that they left - not after the Main Quest.

So finishing the civil war completely breaks the main quest for you then if you haven't gotten to that part?

No. I did the Embassy part. There were still guards afterwards. They didn't leave. They only left after the Civil War was over.

They leave after the civil war regardless of whichever side wins.

They're in skyrim to provoke civil war and to keep it going. The empire is what makes it possible for them to continue acting upon that goal by allowing them free agency in Skyrim. If the war ends, there's nothing left to provoke.

Thats a simplification to falsehood. He was a contact at one time (not pawn), but at this time he is refusing contact. The document never implies that he did their bidding at any point.

When we freed Skyrim of the Imperial Scourge, he shouted a couple of times. He uses a regular FUS, I think.

Also, the Thalmor don't want any side to win, they just want the war to keep going. And if Hammerfell did well without the Empire, so can Skyrim. Now the Empire would be reduced to only Cyrodiil (Highrock would lose direct contact by land, so they would probably split aswell).

Also, the Emperor dying on the DB questline might be a step towards the Empire splitting no matter what happens in the Civil War.

And an important question, if the Stormcloaks win and Ulfric becomes the High King, how long do you wager the Nords by themselves will hold off the Thalmor and the Empire? You either divide and fall or unite and win, the Empire will not triumph without Skyrim and the Nords and Skyrim will not survive without the Empire.

Not directly, but he does there bidding by leading a civil war that divides Skyrim. The Thalmor need the civil war to continue for as long as possible so that they can take down Talos.

For those of us who killed Ulfiric, the Empire can now kick the Thalmor out of its territory and tell them that it no longer needs there help enforcing the Concordat (since there is no longer a rebellion centered around Talos worship) and go back to only enforcing the treaty when the Thalmor are looking. The Empire is also now solidified and can go back to more important matters, such as preparing for round two with the Thalmor and re-establishing ties with both Hammerfell and Morrowind.

Quite a while. Mainly because Skyrim doesn't seem to be sitting on its ass like the empire did the last 150 years and immediately gets to work rebuilding and marshalling troops for attacking the Thalmor. Then you have the Redguards which are right next to summerset and managed to kick the thalmor out by themselves. Better to have seperate nations that can actual govern themselves properly than 1 giant nation that doesn't know how to lead. The sole reason Tamriel is in the shape it's in is because the empire has had poor leadership for the past 2 centuries.

Right. Ulfric was an asset to the Thalmor against the Empire like Usama Bin Laden was an asset to the US against the Soviets.
Exactly. And you have to remember how broken the Empire is. They've lost Summerset, Valenwood, and Elsewyr to the Thalmor, Blackmarsh and Hammerfell to rebellion, and Morrowind to natural disaster, and Orsinium to inter-territorial war. All the "Empire" is anymore is Cyrodiil, Skyrim, and High Rock. Even ignoring the consequences of Talos losing his divinity, it seems that Skyrim would be better off leaving the Empire and forging an alliance with Hammerfell (who was able to drive our the Thalmor, once they left the Empire)

When I was fighting ulfric and his bodyguard, I accidentally hit ulfric and killed him with one hit(I was level 27) while I was trying to kill the bodyguard. I was severely disappointed with the final fight after how well they built him up.

You're such a downer.

LOL Good luck with that. Ulfric's rebellion has been going on for only a few years, the war has been over for nearly 30, so what was the empire's excuse for not fighting back prior to the Stormcloaks?

They left Hammerfell to the wolves and bartered their lands to save Cyrodiil's ass. They let the Argonians march into Morrowind without a protest. How do you suppose the empire is going to re-establish relations with those provinces now? One by one the empire's provinces have realized that they're better off without being yoked to a failing empire. Elsweyr, Black Marsh and Valenwood made the wrong decision by yielding to the Thalmor. Hammerfell and Skyrim have the right idea. High Rock will have little choice but to ally with these, if Skyrim is independent. Maybe then Cyrodill will wake up and realize they can't just order people around any more, but have to respect the other provinces as equals if they want them to help defend their territory.

And just because the Public Worship of Talos is dead, doesn't mean there's no undercurrent of support, as is evidenced by the fact that most Nords in Skyrim seem to have a belief in Talos, even those who are Imperial-aligned.

For Example:


To be honest, it seems like the Empire is just paying lip service to the order of the Thalmor, and is just biding its time until it can finally cast them out of Imperial affairs.

They weren't really 'in Skyrim' like an occupying force or anything. They were there as observers or ambassadors. The Empire isn't enforcing the 'no-Talos' rule. It will be freely practiced with the Empire in charge. And the 'observers and ambassadors' were there because they kicked the Empire's ass - not because the Empire let them. As soon as the Empire is able, they will give the Dominion the thrashing of a lifetime.

Now that and the Civil War is over, the Dragonborn can ascend to the throne and fix the Empire.

He didn't shout at me but he died before even standing up out of his chair..

So, how did that work out for the empire's other lost provinces? And why should Cyrodiil and Skyrim not fight as equal allies rather than have one be subject to the other's rule?