59 posts
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is Ulfric a Thalmor agent
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:18 pm
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Mizz.Jayy - Posts: 3483
- Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:56 pm
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:07 pm
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Heather beauchamp - Posts: 3456
- Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:05 pm
» Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:54 am
there is a note or something about there observations of him while you're in the Thalmor Embassy... it seems they manipulated this war into happening to weaken the empire, they'd prefer the war to go on as long as possible, but if anything they'd prefer Ulfric to win instead of the Imperials
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Danny Blight - Posts: 3400
- Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:30 am
» Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:19 am
He's not an agent but he's an asset to them. They have plenty of use for his loudmouthed bravado.
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lolli - Posts: 3485
- Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:42 am
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:46 am
Asset means that even if he is not allignet with them he is serving their goal, in this case unknowingly. And his status as an asset will change if he wins the war as he will turn Skyrim into a nation that is openly hostile to the Dominion.
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Nick Swan - Posts: 3511
- Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:34 pm
» Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:42 am
He's not an agent but he's an asset to them. They have plenty of use for his loudmouthed bravado.
thats true, a divide in the empire, gives them power
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Lucky Boy - Posts: 3378
- Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:26 pm
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:40 am
He's not an agent but he's an asset to them. They have plenty of use for his loudmouthed bravado.
thats true, a divide in the empire, gives them power
*dp, my bad
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jessica breen - Posts: 3524
- Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:04 am
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:39 pm
Spoiler
There is a dossier on Ulfric in the Thalmor Embassy.
He is not mentioned as an agent, nor is there any evidence that he is actively and knowingly working for the Thalmor or trying to advance their agenda (which is what being an actual "agent" would entail).
He is mentioned as an asset because the Thalmor believe that some of the things he does, or is likely to do, can be exploited by them to their own advantage.
He is not mentioned as an agent, nor is there any evidence that he is actively and knowingly working for the Thalmor or trying to advance their agenda (which is what being an actual "agent" would entail).
He is mentioned as an asset because the Thalmor believe that some of the things he does, or is likely to do, can be exploited by them to their own advantage.
but if anything they'd prefer Ulfric to win instead of the Imperials
Incorrect,
Spoiler
the dossier states that a Stormcloak victory is to be avoided.
The Thalmor would prefer to see the war go on as long as possible with no clear winner. If either side wins too quickly, neither side takes as much of a hit to their resources and manpower. The longer it goes on, the bigger a hit both sides take no matter who wins.
In the event that either side does emerge as a clear victor, I think they would prefer it to be the Empire as that would mean they could continue their enforcement of the WGC in Skyrim with Imperial backing and protection, which also means they could continue whatever intel gathering and surveillance they are doing in the process. If the Stormcloaks win and secede from the Empire they will no longer be bound by the WGC and I think it's safe to say that overt Thalmor activity in Skyrim will not be tolerated by the new regime insofar as they can prevent it.
The Thalmor would prefer to see the war go on as long as possible with no clear winner. If either side wins too quickly, neither side takes as much of a hit to their resources and manpower. The longer it goes on, the bigger a hit both sides take no matter who wins.
In the event that either side does emerge as a clear victor, I think they would prefer it to be the Empire as that would mean they could continue their enforcement of the WGC in Skyrim with Imperial backing and protection, which also means they could continue whatever intel gathering and surveillance they are doing in the process. If the Stormcloaks win and secede from the Empire they will no longer be bound by the WGC and I think it's safe to say that overt Thalmor activity in Skyrim will not be tolerated by the new regime insofar as they can prevent it.
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Eduardo Rosas - Posts: 3381
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:15 pm
» Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:08 am
There is a dossier on Ulfric in the Thalmor Embassy.
He is not mentioned as an agent, nor is there any evidence that he is actively and knowingly working for the Thalmor or trying to advance their agenda (which is what being an actual "agent" would entail).
He is mentioned as an asset because the Thalmor believe that some of the things he does, or is likely to do, can be exploited by them to their own advantage.
Incorrect, the dossier states that a Stormcloak victory is to be avoided.
The Thalmor would prefer to see the war go on as long as possible with no clear winner. If either side wins too quickly, neither side takes as much of a hit to their resources and manpower. The longer it goes on, the bigger a hit both sides take no matter who wins.
In the event that either side does emerge as a clear victor, I think they would prefer it to be the Empire as that would mean they could continue their enforcement of the WGC in Skyrim with Imperial backing and protection, which also means they could continue whatever intel gathering and surveillance they are doing in the process. If the Stormcloaks win and secede from the Empire they will no longer be bound by the WGC and I think it's safe to say that overt Thalmor activity in Skyrim will not be tolerated by the new regime insofar as they can prevent it.
He is not mentioned as an agent, nor is there any evidence that he is actively and knowingly working for the Thalmor or trying to advance their agenda (which is what being an actual "agent" would entail).
He is mentioned as an asset because the Thalmor believe that some of the things he does, or is likely to do, can be exploited by them to their own advantage.
Incorrect, the dossier states that a Stormcloak victory is to be avoided.
The Thalmor would prefer to see the war go on as long as possible with no clear winner. If either side wins too quickly, neither side takes as much of a hit to their resources and manpower. The longer it goes on, the bigger a hit both sides take no matter who wins.
In the event that either side does emerge as a clear victor, I think they would prefer it to be the Empire as that would mean they could continue their enforcement of the WGC in Skyrim with Imperial backing and protection, which also means they could continue whatever intel gathering and surveillance they are doing in the process. If the Stormcloaks win and secede from the Empire they will no longer be bound by the WGC and I think it's safe to say that overt Thalmor activity in Skyrim will not be tolerated by the new regime insofar as they can prevent it.
That is the impression I got as well. Basically, the Thalmor want Ulfric to keep bleeding the Empire so that they can keep their boot on the Empire's neck. Neither a strong Empire nor a free Skyrim is good for them.
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Tasha Clifford - Posts: 3295
- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:08 am
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:30 pm
Please do not post spoilers in this section. The game hasn't even been out a year yet. Is it that hard to go ONE section below to the spoiler discussion section?
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Alexandra Louise Taylor - Posts: 3449
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:48 pm
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:00 pm
He's not an agent but he's an asset to them. They have plenty of use for his loudmouthed bravado.
This.
He's not helping the Thalmor directly, but anything that weakens the empire = good for the Thalmor.
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Dalton Greynolds - Posts: 3476
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:12 pm
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:50 pm
Please do not post spoilers in this section. The game hasn't even been out a year yet. Is it that hard to go ONE section below to the spoiler discussion section?
D3 hasn't even been out two weeks. Try finding something that isn't spoiled.
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josie treuberg - Posts: 3572
- Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:56 am
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:16 pm
Well he is not a Thalmor agent, but they consider him an "uncoopretive asset" in that while he hates them and would willing fight them once he takes over Skyrim his war against the Imperials will weaken the Empire which are the Thalmors primary enemies.
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tannis - Posts: 3446
- Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:21 pm
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:29 pm
Well he is not a Thalmor agent, but they consider him an "uncoopretive asset" in that while he hates them and would willing fight them once he takes over Skyrim his war against the Imperials will weaken the Empire which are the Thalmors primary enemies.
Most of the Empire would currently be marked as "cooperative asset", including the emperor.
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Kayla Bee - Posts: 3349
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:34 pm
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:28 pm
Spoiler
There is a dossier on Ulfric in the Thalmor Embassy.
He is not mentioned as an agent, nor is there any evidence that he is actively and knowingly working for the Thalmor or trying to advance their agenda (which is what being an actual "agent" would entail).
He is mentioned as an asset because the Thalmor believe that some of the things he does, or is likely to do, can be exploited by them to their own advantage.
He is not mentioned as an agent, nor is there any evidence that he is actively and knowingly working for the Thalmor or trying to advance their agenda (which is what being an actual "agent" would entail).
He is mentioned as an asset because the Thalmor believe that some of the things he does, or is likely to do, can be exploited by them to their own advantage.
Incorrect,
Spoiler
the dossier states that a Stormcloak victory is to be avoided.
The Thalmor would prefer to see the war go on as long as possible with no clear winner. If either side wins too quickly, neither side takes as much of a hit to their resources and manpower. The longer it goes on, the bigger a hit both sides take no matter who wins.
In the event that either side does emerge as a clear victor, I think they would prefer it to be the Empire as that would mean they could continue their enforcement of the WGC in Skyrim with Imperial backing and protection, which also means they could continue whatever intel gathering and surveillance they are doing in the process. If the Stormcloaks win and secede from the Empire they will no longer be bound by the WGC and I think it's safe to say that overt Thalmor activity in Skyrim will not be tolerated by the new regime insofar as they can prevent it.
The Thalmor would prefer to see the war go on as long as possible with no clear winner. If either side wins too quickly, neither side takes as much of a hit to their resources and manpower. The longer it goes on, the bigger a hit both sides take no matter who wins.
In the event that either side does emerge as a clear victor, I think they would prefer it to be the Empire as that would mean they could continue their enforcement of the WGC in Skyrim with Imperial backing and protection, which also means they could continue whatever intel gathering and surveillance they are doing in the process. If the Stormcloaks win and secede from the Empire they will no longer be bound by the WGC and I think it's safe to say that overt Thalmor activity in Skyrim will not be tolerated by the new regime insofar as they can prevent it.
Stormcloaks win
-pro-The empire will lose a big province with much resources, divide and conquer.
-pro-seeing how "short sighted" Ulfric is, he will never make an alliance with the empire. even an alliance with Hammerfell will be filled with tensions, a problem which would never be present in a united empire.
-con-As you said, the Thalmor wouldn't be able to walk around Skyrim and take Talos worshippers and keep an eye around.
Imperial win
-pro- They still could regulate and stay around in Skyrim, spying and killing resistance to the Thalmor.
-con- an united empire is going to be hard to beat in the future, and there are no relation problems in this case.(which would be present if Stormcloaks win.
-con- Extra recources, means that the Empire can rearm its forces faster, much faster than the Thalmor can.
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Rob Davidson - Posts: 3422
- Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:52 am
» Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:10 am
each side when they win have pros and cons to the Thalmor I believe.
Stormcloaks win
-pro-The empire will lose a big province with much resources, divide and conquer.
-pro-seeing how "short sighted" Ulfric is, he will never make an alliance with the empire. even an alliance with Hammerfell will be filled with tensions, a problem which would never be present in a united empire.
-con-As you said, the Thalmor wouldn't be able to walk around Skyrim and take Talos worshippers and keep an eye around.
Imperial win
-pro- They still could regulate and stay around in Skyrim, spying and killing resistance to the Thalmor.
-con- an united empire is going to be hard to beat in the future, and there are no relation problems in this case.(which would be present if Stormcloaks win.
-con- Extra recources, means that the Empire can rearm its forces faster, much faster than the Thalmor can.
Stormcloaks win
-pro-The empire will lose a big province with much resources, divide and conquer.
-pro-seeing how "short sighted" Ulfric is, he will never make an alliance with the empire. even an alliance with Hammerfell will be filled with tensions, a problem which would never be present in a united empire.
-con-As you said, the Thalmor wouldn't be able to walk around Skyrim and take Talos worshippers and keep an eye around.
Imperial win
-pro- They still could regulate and stay around in Skyrim, spying and killing resistance to the Thalmor.
-con- an united empire is going to be hard to beat in the future, and there are no relation problems in this case.(which would be present if Stormcloaks win.
-con- Extra recources, means that the Empire can rearm its forces faster, much faster than the Thalmor can.
Spoiler
I think you are wrong about the possibility of an alliance with the Empire after a Stormcloak win. There is dialogue in the game that you apparently only hear if you reach a particular point in the DB questline and a particular point in the CW questline at the same time. It makes it pretty clear to me that Ulfric doesn't want an all-out longterm conflict with the Empire, that he is thinking about what relationship an independent Skryim will have to the Empire if independence becomes a reality, and that he's willing to put off achieving that goal in order to avoid more trouble in that regard than what he's already got.
I think you are wrong about the possibility of an alliance with the Empire after a Stormcloak win. There is dialogue in the game that you apparently only hear if you reach a particular point in the DB questline and a particular point in the CW questline at the same time. It makes it pretty clear to me that Ulfric doesn't want an all-out longterm conflict with the Empire, that he is thinking about what relationship an independent Skryim will have to the Empire if independence becomes a reality, and that he's willing to put off achieving that goal in order to avoid more trouble in that regard than what he's already got.
And even if there were no future alliance with the Empire, I don't think either the Empire or an independent Skyrim would just sit back and watch while the other was attacked and overrun by the Dominion. If the Aldmeri Dominion takes more of Tamriel than they already have, it's not good for Skyrim or what's left of the Empire, and I'm pretty sure neither of them *wants* to be the last non-Altmer state left standing to fight them off.
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Mrs shelly Sugarplum - Posts: 3440
- Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:16 am
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:18 pm
-pro-seeing how "short sighted" Ulfric is, he will never make an alliance with the empire. even an alliance with Hammerfell will be filled with tensions, a problem which would never be present in a united empire.
People keep throwing this "Short sighted" term around with ulfric for some reason. They neglect to mention the 25 years between the markarth incident and the duel with Torygg. Or that he's not only attempting alliances with Hammerfell but with High Rock. Or that his concern is of the Thalmor and rebuilding Skyrim's infrastructure and army when the imperials are pushed out, and not pressing at all against the empire(Lyn notes of an example above that reinforces the idea). Or that the war in Skyrim stalled because he keeps trying to get Balgruuf to side with him because he'd rather not waste troops.
I could understand people saying this about Galmar, as he really is short-sighted. Hell Ulfric is almost always telling Galmar to have patience.
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lacy lake - Posts: 3450
- Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:13 am
» Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:35 am
No, he is definately not an agent, but I'm sure the Thalmor want him to keep the empire occupied and weakened.
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Rachyroo - Posts: 3415
- Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:23 pm
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:48 am
He is really just a Thalmor toy.
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Zualett - Posts: 3567
- Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:36 pm
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:57 am
He's doing exactly what the Thalmor want him to, but he has no idea of it.
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J.P loves - Posts: 3487
- Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:03 am
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:00 pm
He's doing exactly what the Thalmor want him to, but he has no idea of it.
If he wins then he is no longer an asset and instead a threat to Thalmor goals, since with the Stormcloaks in power they aren't free to roam Skyrim.
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Matthew Warren - Posts: 3463
- Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:37 pm
» Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:31 am
He is really just a Thalmor toy.
I'm sure Ondolemar thought so too when Markarth was taken.
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lilmissparty - Posts: 3469
- Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:51 pm
» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:37 pm
People keep throwing this "Short sighted" term around with ulfric for some reason.
Well, clearly, anyone who chooses a path that doesn't include unconditional loyalty to the Empire must be shortsighted. And stupid. And dishonorable. And probably a Thalmor spy. Because unconditional loyalty to the Empire is the only criterion by which to judge if someone is or isn't any of those things. All other evidence is irrelevant. It just goes without saying.
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victoria johnstone - Posts: 3424
- Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:56 am
59 posts
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