You were talking about having perks, not skills. That's why I was saying it would only wok in a system where you have to manually invest points in to skills.

That actually doesn`t make sense.

Why would making lockpicking a skill you need to lockpick effectively make it class based?

You could be a thief a warrior or wizard, but still develop a lock pick skill. It`s not about class base at all. It`s just easier to develop those skills faster if you play a thief, naturally.

I think your idea of role playing is how much patience and skill the player has regardless of the character he builds. Perhaps you should look at how that applies to beat em up games, because that's where it applies. Player skill should impact the game, but not make things possible that should not really be possible unless your character has actually developed along that path. And like Blade Watcher said, this has nothing to do with class, but with a perk invested in a skill tree. Your trying to insult me by using a bioware game, but all you've managed to do is insult yourself by saying role playing should not have a character actually developing itself to do something it couldn't do before.

Hang on,

This is what you said.


And in Skyrim developing a character is all about gainig exprience by doing it. I'm not saying the older system is bad, but there is no need for them to change the one they currently have through a DLC. I certainly won't be paying for that change, maybe you will.

I'm not saying you should do away with gaining experience by "doing" it. You'd still need to put gain enough skill to get the perk. It's the same with smithing. You can have 100 smithing, but without any perk you''re stuck with iron, steel, hide and leather equipment. Want to create Dreadic weapons and armor? You're going to have to invest 4 perks. It's the same with speech. You want any store to accept evertyhing you buy? You're going to have to invest a perk. Also with backstabbing. You want to do 15x damage? Get the perk. Check out archery. You want to zoom in and slow down time? Get the perk!

It's about being able to do something you couldn't do at level 1. This requires skills + perks. It doesn't make sense if you don't accept the same for lock picking.

Skills: you're trained and better at something you already knew.
Perks: you learn something completely new.

So what, you can't swing a sword because you have no perks. Stop sharing only the side of story that advantages you and have a look at the leveling system in it's entirety.

I had a lot of practice in Fallout with this system and I currently have a surplus of 170 lockpicks at Level 43. This makes me think that it could be more difficult but not insanely so. New people to the system don't need to get crazy frustrated. I never took a perk for the skill so that's another thing that points to more difficulty. I don't care about an Unlocking spell unless a change to the difficulty makes it desirable. I can live with it the way it is but a bit more difficulty would be ok too and might make the perks more desirable. It's a delicate balance..we'll see what happens down the road with it.

You stopped making sense a few posts back man. Please... make... the ... hurting... stop.

Hahahaha, wow, now if this isn't a case of the pot calling the refridgerator black.

As to OP. I agree that Lockpicking needs a revamp. Same with Speechcraft. And other such skills right now that see little to no perk placement because it's unnecessary. TES games are supposed to be about choices. It's a Life sim. And also Ji Soo, you asked why should there be alternative means to opening locks than lockpicking, which leads me to believe you're in the "lockpicking is available, if you dont wanna pick locks/arent RPing a thief type then you don't need the chest" camp. Well to your why, like I said, Skyrim is a Life sim. And in Real Life I sure as hell can't pick a lock, but I know for a fact that I can kick down a door or bash open a padlock with a sledgehammer. Hell, most locksmiths these day's cant even pick a lock, they have special machines that do it.

You can't be a completionist in this game, seriously. All the locked paths are optional/random leveled loot. I wouldn't mind them making lockpicking harder, since after a little practice with the minigame and carrying around even just ONE +lockpicking skill item I can open every single lock the game throws at me.

Really the biggest issue with lockpicking is it's never used for anything but obtaining random loot. Lockpicking rarely opens alternate routes that give you a sneak advantage. You never find something truly amazing just because you were able to unlock a master level display. Things like this make lockpicking lackluster.

Why can't mages blow open locks or warriors simply smash them?

Maybe they banned the open spell, just like the levitation act?

In the current state with lock picking; it shouldn't be a skill. There is no reason for there to be a skill for something that you DONT need to level. Put restrictions on locks so there is some incentive to taking perks or at least leveling up the skill.

The open spells should be brought back as well. They are the same concept as lock picking and add more variety to play styles. And you can't argue that it makes it too easy because as a novice in lock pick i can open any chest. With the open spells, i at least need to have enough magicka, and be the right level in the skill to cast the spell.

Sorry, this is my really only complaint with the game and i thought beth would fix it after seeing FO3.

I agree but you should be able to at least attempt a lock no matter what level your lock-picking is. Just like you could in reality. I think they should just make a master near impossible without skill and the proper lock-pick.

No I mean actually blow it open... with a Fireball. Or melt it. Or Freeze it and then break it.

That is a dumb question. How about player choice.

As soon as I opened a master chest at low level with around 15 lockpics or so, it became obvious...

The lockpicking tree is worthless, I don't even have to look at it to verify this...

Like in reality. Ok if you want to go there then sure. They should also intriduce locks which you can try but have no clue to how they open just like in reality. Ones you cant open with an ffing lock pick but require years of actual training. Or you could just accept a perk that makes the same thing possible without the bs.

To be fair I can say the exact same thing about combat. I have a character with no combat perks and I don't find combat difficult. Is putting perks in combat any more worthwhile than putting them into lockpicking? If anything, picking a master lock is much more annoying and 'challenging' than defeating most enemies. You could probably beat the game fairly easily without investing in a single perk. If they balanced the reward to the level of the lock and made picking locks harder (eg. move the target zone a little every time you fail, with greater movement for harder locks, have broken lockpicks occasionally jamming the lock, etc.) these perks would be worth just as much to me as a combat perk.

Agreed 100%.

I never put points in it.. I just keep a large supply of lockpicks, and besides i am intuitive and have pretty good luck with doing the locks.
I use the points on things that matter.. like anything that makes be a more efficient killing machine!

Pretty well this.

I'll add:
I like the way it is. I don't feel they need to change it at all. Yeah I find the perk tree fairly useless, if someone is not good at it they might like the perks, but if you work at something you just become better at it. Wow, it even makes sense. I also like that you can pick a master lock at level one... it's called luck, and you will break a few, or a lot of lockpicks. So what. There is no reason that a level 1 shouldn't be able to open a master lock, that completely doesn't make any sense at all. It's just really hard to pick at that point.

lockpicking is about perfect how it is...i don't see anything wrong with it...its fairly difficult early on and you do break picks, i liked how you could use alteration to pick locks in oblivion...maybe one expert level spell, kinda like the invisible spell.

I think the whole problem with lockpicking came about with the introduction of the mini-game, which changed the focus to the player rather than his or her character. But, modern gamers insist on mini-games, and so we lost the whole character with skill level of 32 can only open a level 62 if they're very, very lucky.

Get rid of the mini-game and the lockpicking skill or perks would matter again, but we can't have that.

Wich difficulty level do you use? I play on master and I can assure you that every perk in the combat trees is well used.


Finally someone who understand me...