Do you not remember the nightmare of "scrap metal"?!!!?!??!?

Oh yeah, those are really part of the game, this may never be redone in Sk...

... okay you're delusional.

So just because of voice acting you cannot make mods that add completely new factions.

Remember Oblivion mods, and how it had no quest or faction mods at all?

The thing is, if it written down, it can be voiced.

VOICE ACTING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING, WHY DOES EVERYBODY BRING THIS UP?

And you did not felt like you were with the Forsworn by secretly helping out their king because...

HAHAHAHA... no

And those quest where that happens doesn't at all resolve in a "get items X" or "kill/talk to person Y"?

Because there's quite a bit of depth and character behind Skyrim's quests too, betrayal, traitors, old secrets and you can basically affect a future of the freaking province.

Yeah, the Morrowind's Legion questline is actually one of the more interesting one, too bad I cannot say the same for the rest though.
You wish.

Wow, there's no propaganda there at all... you sir are the definition of fair and objective.

To balance your opinion, let me just say that while the Morrowind quests sound fun and interesting on paper, in practice the ones you listed weren't as interesting as you made them out to be. The Kwama Queen quest for example could be done in less than five minutes, and it inovlved:

1) Buy scroll from person in town.
2) Run to mine and cast scroll on queen who can be found a minute and a half away.
3) Return for reward.

That essentially is a "go to x and do y". The only challenge there was maybe a Kwama Warrior or two, nothing more. When I do these kind of quests in Morrowind I have to search for ways to pad things out because for roleplay purposes I don't want to complete these quests in minutes flat. Aside from the hostage quest, none of the first Legion quests had any real substance or difficulty, and mostly involved just going back and forth between a few characters in town.

This might shock you so much as to cause your eyes to burst, but some of use care about more than just lore (that's not to say I don't care about lore, it's just not the only thing I like). Call us philistines if you must, some of us actually want to have fun questing, and thus don't enjoy filler quests that can be completed in a couple of minutes. Maybe the common Skyrim quest of going to a cave and fight bandits might not be as interesting in terms of lore, but at least it lets my character a reason to go out into the land and actually took more than five minutes to do.

I believe what Ravenius is trying to get at is that he doesn't want Skyrim to be Morrowind, but that he wants the older concepts that were proven to be effective, but were lacking from a newer game that could easily handle said functions. It's like after years of using firearms and technology only getting better, the military powers of the world revert back to swords and bows. I'm not bashing Skyrim, I love it, there is just a lot of things that don't make any sense.

Because any shmuck can voice a few lines, but in order to have the voice be of similar quality to the rest of the voice acting is tough. One person can't do a damsel in distress voice, plus a sinister evil villain voice, plus a masculine, burly Imperial hero voice, and a whiney wood elf voice all by himself. In fact chances are he can't do any of those voices, because most of us simply don't have the talent or vocal ability to be professional voice actors. But, a great many Elder Scrolls players have the imagination to dream up a good quest line, and the skills to put it in writing.


Haha...yes? At the end of the Morrowind Imperial Legion quest line I've discovered a unique artifact sword named Chrysamere, and a briastplate called the Lord's Mail. At the end of the Skyrim Imperial Legion quest-line I got a 'Dwemer Fireblade' that would've probably been an 'Orcish Fireblade' had I done the last quest a few levels later. And besides, you may not think that the average Morrowind guild qualifies as 'full length' but they definitely took a much larger time and investment to progress in than Skyrim factions...


I don't know, isn't that what any quest is? Go somewhere, do something, come back? I liked the first Imperial legion quest because you talk to the widow and can either shake her down for the land deed, or she can convince you that her husband was murdered. So if you go and investigate, turns out her husband was in fact murdered, the commanding officer tells you to execute the murderer, and at the end you can kick in some money to a fund that the soldiers are putting together for the poor widow, which is kind of a nice touch. I wouldn't say that Skyrim quests in general don't have character - some of them are very well done, some of them are very interesting. I'm just at large disappointed with the guilds in the game. The Murder mystery in Morthal happens to be one of my favorite TES quests of all time, so there are definitely gems laying around in the snow.


I should've stopped reading here, but I'll show you more respect than you showed me.


Sure, the first Legion fort has some pretty easy quests. They start you off kind of slow, which is legitimate for some scrub who just showed up off the Silt Strider with no prior military experience. I kind of welcome the change of pace from Skyrim where everything is so dramatic and overdosing on epic. I would also agree that the Kwama mine is the weakest example here, but I rather liked freeing the tax collector.

You're told an ancient and powerful wizard lives in the strange looking building at the edge of town. A search of the place yields a pair of tough skeletons and some rats, and if you search you can find a key to the tower's upper levels. Open the door you're face to face with a scary Daedra that a new player has probably never seen before, but thankfully it appears content to leave you alone. Walk around it, giving it a wide birth - oh is that a Centurion Sphere in the corner? Haven't seen that yet either... Oh and here's Baladas Demnevanni, the crazy wizard everyone told me about. Most players might try and stab him in the gut (which if this were Skyrim would work out beautifully) but instead the old, all powerful wizard can destroy you with what amounts to a yawn. This quest can't be completed with brute force, so you need to try and talk to him. If you raise his disposition high enough through your speechcraft skill, or by just showering him with gold, he'll finally hear you out and you can make the case as to why the tax collector should be free. 'Okay fine' he says, 'Just leave me alone and I don't want to see either of you ever again...is that clear?' To which I reply 'Oh yes sir!' and turn around and run away, going to find the cell with the tax collector where I free her and escort her out of the building, quest complete.

I don't know, I find it pretty interesting for something that's like quest #2 for the Legion. You have to do a few different things, you encounter new creatures, it teaches you that combat isn't always the best solution and sometimes isn't even an option, and at the end of the day General Darius gives you a new piece of armor to complete your uniform and says good work. If you disagree then fine, but I think it's hard to argue that there wasn't more 'heart' put in this quest than some of the Imperial Legion quests in Skyrim...


Ugh... Come on bro. Stop being so over the top, I don't hate you, I'm not the wicked witch.

The problem is that those concept were not proven as effective as he's making them out to be. I think Morrowind's factions would have been better if they cut out all the "complete in two minute" filler quests, which I always found annoying, pointless, and unrewarding. It's probably one of the few things I didn't like about an otherwise fantastic game.


What can I say, a wicked wtich would be preferrable to you.

Maybe some of the filler quests were annoying to you, and that's your right to have that opinion. The thing is, those filler quests are what stretch a guild out and make it more believable that you're advancing in it, if you're at least doing some grunt work along the way. Could they have been better done sometimes? Sure. All in all was the guild experience in Morrowind ten times more satisfying than that in Skyrim? In my opinion it was, and that's the case I'm trying to make but you can differ.

In my view, if a filler quest is tedious or boring then improve it a little, add some better writing. I'd apply the same thing to removed skills like mysticism, medium armor, and spears. Conversely Bethesda (and I guess you too, Mr. Shuuda) would rather just cut them out than have to deal with fixing or improving things. That's another thing that's really irked me about subsequent games since Morrowind.

Would be cool to join them.

You know, I don't think it's clever to tell someone you're giving them respect only to turn around and lace your posts in thinly veiled insults and act patronising. Plus, Mr. Shuuda is my dad's name.

The advancement through Morrowind's guilds isn't that much more believable if you accept that getting to the head position of a guild or a major house would actually take years of work, not a few months, or a week if you do it fast enough. At the end of the day, they're both fiction, so adherence to the real world isn't the only thing they should be judged on. While overall I would say I prefer Morrowind's guilds, it's not for the reasons you state. The problem with the quests wasn't the writing, but the lack of any challange.

At the end of the day, I didn't


I dunno, I got the message pretty quick that I could convince him the moment I saw him not blindy charging to attack me.


Sure it could, you just need to be a higher level. Again, you're just hyping things up.


I dunno; the whole "raise guys disposition to win" style quests were a dime a dozen, and all used the same tactic. A better example would've been the ones for the Balmora mages guild, since some of them even added long travelling, which is where the fun of a TES game usually comes from. Ranis's first two quests were good example of balancing the slice of life nature of Morrowind's guilds with some actual adventure.

Thank you ^^ I did manage to find it (It had been marked out on my map) so I went along to visit it. It is quite a nice place they have got ^^ )

The evil character that I am going to create would like to join the Forsworn to go out kill who they need to be killed.

I think overall I've shown more respect to other people and their opinions, and at the very least have been less 'hysterical' in reaction to other people's posts than other people have shown towards me.


Everything needs be taken with an understanding that Morrowind is 8 years old and could only do so many things with what it had, but I don't want to see Skyrim making the same mistakes now that we've advanced almost a decade and technology and programming has come so far. The fact of the matter is that it often did take quite a while to advance in your guild. Why? Because I can't become the Grandmaster of the Fighter's Guild until I get a skill to level 90 and that takes time. If I join the Fighters Guild on day one, I can't just sit down and do quest after quest and grind through until I'm finished, there are quests that are too hard and you need to come back and do them later, or find some other solution than the direct approach. Other times the guild wouldn't let me advance and get at the later quests because my skills weren't high enough. Either way I need to leave the guild for awhile and do other things, take a vacation so to speak. So that if I join a guild on day one it probably will take me months, or even half a year or more in-game time to advance to the highest rank.

I guess if your character is level 30, with a high level in tons of different skills then he's enough of a 'Morrowind Superstar' to justify just shooting up the ranks like nothing, but that's not what I'm basing my observations on.


Maybe you're just an uber pro. When I first did this quest I got frustrated when I couldn't talk him into living me enough, and I didn't feel like spending all my money on bribes so I thought I'd try and take the key by force. Bad idea.


That's not the point. My entire little thesis in this thread is looking at the Imperial Legion from the standpoint of never having done its quests before, and embarking on said quests at a low to medium level as you would normally do, not showing up as a badass to wreck your way through all of the lower level content.


Fair enough, raising disposition wasn't all that involved usually, but I think it was just as good as the whee-of-fortune speechcraft from Oblivion, and better than Skyrim's speechcraft which gives you a diceroll as an alternative to 100 gold or fisticuffs to get whatever you wanted out of a person. At least in Morrowind your personality attribute came into play. I liked being an Imperial with high speechcraft and a high starting personality, talking people into things with ease relative to my low personality, no speechcraft Dunmer who had to drop a few hundred gold everytime he so much as said hi. Makes each character feel different.

Of course the real thing I take away from this last quote is that while you disagree that the Imperial legion quests were compelling, you did like some of the stuff from the Balmora mage's guild. I concede that people have different tastes so that's fine, but my point still stands - Morrowind's Mage's Guild was longer, more varied, and by extension more interesting than Skyrim's College of Winterhold. If you disagree and think that for whatever reason the College of Winterhold is the better of the two then fine, but if you feel that way then wouldn't you prefer the College have had an even longer, more interesting/varied quest line?

This is a hard one. Firstly, I disagree with the notion that being longer and more varied automatically equals being more interesting. For me, the Mages Guild and the College of WInterhold is a close contest, and one I don't feel like calling since I liked them both for different reasons.

If that's the case then I can respect that. I personally liked the Thieves Guild from all three of the more recent games for different reasons, but at the same time I acknowledge that even if one was not better than the other I would probably want to combine elements of both together to make an even better faction for TES VI.

For me the plot behind the Thieves Guild was very cool, I loved getting awesome armor and weapons, What I didn't like was how the last half of the guild seemed to have little or no stealth or stealing or thievery, it was all just going through long dungeons with a companion or two. I'd have preferred more missions to steal things (and not just the randomly generated dynamic quests which are okay but unsatisfying), culminating in something at the end which was more of an Oblivion-style 'grand heist'. But still, I applaud Bethesda for the interesting and inventive story, and the great writing.

Ignoring the Morrowind vs Skyrim war (in which I support Skyrim) ...

It would be nice to join the forsworn, but honestly, I think it would ruin them. The whole point of the Forsworn is that they're native to the reach and want to rule it. There is no 'reachmen' race, so it would be odd joining then. I think I like the forsworn as they are - ruthless barbarians who want to murder everyone in sight!

I think you do them a disservice. 'Reachmen' are in fact Bretons, in the same way a Colovian is an Imperial. And while they may be murderous, even terrorist in their actions I think there is a worthy independence movement, and a story to be told. Why not bother telling it, which is what Bethesda used to be so good at doing, that is exploring both sides of an issue and leaving it up to the player on who he sides with.

If I'm not mistaken, the Foresworn are mostly Breton, mixed other none Nord races who join because of their dislike of the local rulers etc.

I know this has nothing to do with the original topic, but if they could make the next TES game with the same graphics as skyrim with the same depth of morrowind it would be amazing.

And realistic people. People who actually KNOW when the civil war has ended but at the same time aren't walking encyclopedias for you to read. And with voice acting - I'd hate to lose it.

^This guy deserves a high five. You are absolutely right.

Why are longer questlines always better than the shorter ones? I did enjoy it when I could finish Skyrim in under 300 hours and I was still able to get all the guild stories and was therefore "up to date" with the lore. Some people just like shorter games because they enjoy the fast pacing, have jobs and different hobbies etc. It doesn't make Skyrim worse, just different.
And honestly, Morrowind is still for sale. I didn't commit suicide just because BF3 isn't as "good" (i.e. similar) as BF2.

That would be pretty nice, too bad you can't.

I like how this disintegrated to Morrowind vs. Skyrim.

Check out the video: Siege on Markarth by the Forsworn with Dark Brotherhood implications.

http://www.youtube.com/user/XboxRockyPrice?feature=mhee

And I want to join the Thalmors.

Thalmor and Forsworn would be cool. I have a feeling the Forsworn have it rough with them camping out in the wilderness. The Thalmor have cool apparel and are very organized.