Well well if I supply the statistics of my armor set that does not use the Alchemy/Smithing/Enchanting exploit, rather just the Smithing/Enchanting version that requires only fortify smithing for 4 pieces of armor for fortify smithing 25% each, with a potion of fortify smithing 45% from level 80 Alchemy with no perks in that tree and four fortify alchemy 25% armors. My armor rating is 760. Also, my Daedric sword does not utilize the full tri-skill exploit either. Which still means that the max armor rating of werewolf for is still going to be less than half that of a end game armor set that took a lot of time to create, no console cheating to level here. Also, with only Smithing level 100 with the dragon smithing perk which raises the dragon scale by 50%, meaning (140 + 43 + 43 + 60) * 1.5 = 286 * 1.5 = 429 total armor rating. Which is still about 50% better than werewolf defenses. And the Daedric Sword adjusted by the Daedric Smithing perk which raises the daedric by 100%, meaning 37 * 2 = 64, only 16 less than the werewolf. And 100 smithing is not hard to get.

last time i remember turning into a werewolf, i was stuck in a hole in a dungeon, i couldn't jump out, run out, run out backwards, run out in circles, was inside a dungeon so i couldn't break my "no fast travel law" and I made alot of progress and didn't feel like saving....

then I had a thought...I could barley fit in this crack as a wood elf...werewolf is bigger....and sure enough after i turned werewolf i was able to simply walk out of the crack, then i used wait for 1 hour and continued on as a wood elf.

@OP

Not gunna read everyone elses posts on here but I totally agree with you. And I think its fitting that the companions quest line finishes by removing "wolf form".

I think it really was only meant to be used very early on or to be an affliction like the "king jarvasskor" guy says it is.

As mentioned earlier, since the skills are one hand and light armor, a character that has those skill maximized will have a great werewolf. A mage with robes or a two handed warrior will have a weak werewolf form. Ironic considering the companions love of 2 handers and heavy armor.

I personally found werewolves to be completely underwhelming in Skyrim. Had the same problem as the OP: dungeons that I could clear out blindfolded normally turned into deathtraps when I was a werewolf.

To be honest, I was hoping the werewolves would be more like those found in Bloodmoon...most enemies would literally start running and screaming at the very sight of you there, and you could tear all but the strongest enemies to pieces. (And this is without the myriad of upgrades you can get). I would have understood if they'd made it a little less powerful in Skyrim...but as it is?

Same goes for vampirism, as far as I'm concerned.

Wow.. lots of unnecessary words since I last saw this thread.

Werewolves are not meant to be unstoppable - and silver is meant to hurt them. A mob of level 25+ enemies should be able to kill a werewolf!

So you fight them intelligently + using your abilities. IMO fear shouldn't work on an enemy who is over lvl25.. they are experienced fighters and have maybe even fought werewolves before! That is why you have other 'shouts' available to you.

What makes you a tougher werewolf than all the other ones you fight? - your brain, not your claws.

You have control over your beast form, which means you don't have to simply charge into a fight and attempt to thrash at them for "15 consecutive hits".

Your claws get dull, your hide gets raw, but your brain can save you? The strategy varies as you level my friend. Low levels: Go crazy. Mid levels: Have a little fun but don't be over zealous(That's probably where you are based on your statement). High levels: Becomes a game of dodge ball with wrenches that if they tap you, you die. The strategy is Power attack, and, allow me to Quote you, Quoting myself, thrash them on the ground for '15 consecutive hits'. And that's the bare minimum to survive at level 53, with 90 light armor, the only stat I proved affects anything at all having to do with werewolves. And as a werewolf, my defense is 288, 8 defense points away from the maximum possible werewolf defense rating. You also say that a mob of 25+ level enemies should be able to kill me, right? Well yes, if I were using the strategy for low levels. And here is the thing, if it only took one power attack to kill me, how can strategy save you? I was in the middle of my power attack, then he did his, and not even the dual wield one. And last I checked, forsworn weapons aren't silver. And also, I had sustained no damage up to that point so it truly was as if it were a 1 on 1 fight. And I did say that I had to debilitate them first before the thrashing. So I do fight intelligently with what I have, at my level, and all that is, is Power attacks and normal attacks, and as you said, fear shouldn't work on 25+ level enemies, and it doesn't. And no, you cannot use dragon shouts as a werewolf. And of course I don't have to rush in, that's positively suicidal. It's not a choice, at high levels you have to Power attack, thrash, rinse and repeat, and pray to not get hit once. That isn't strategy, that's redundancy. And if it only takes 1 hit to someone at my light armor level, then it IS underpowered. Basically not unstoppable, but completely stoppable.

I gave little apostrophes around the word shouts, please don't just ignore them. I was referring to the other werewolf abilities you gain from praying in the underforge.

And to a certain degree you're right. But although you can do what you want in this game, there are rough levels that the devs expected people to experience certain things - and for the majority of players werewolf form will be tried before level 25 (because you are exposed to it early in the companions quests).

This does not negate your issues with them, but they start off fun & easy while you're a low level and gradually becomes less practical as you become stronger. Assuming when you're stronger it may be fun to periodically have more of a challenge (maybe for RP reasons too), werewolves could still be interesting for higher players - depending on what they're looking for. When you're a low level perhaps you want to become a werewolf for more power (making certain areas easier), but then for higher levels they want more of a challenge... see what I mean?

I understand what you meant by 'shouts' now. But on to the bulk of your reply. I do see what you mean, and I do agree with what you say in the part about higher challenges as you level. However, a challenge that I believe that most people like are the ones where if you are smart about what you do, you can succeed, and have a little room for error. At high levels, there isn't any. That's the problem. You could compare it to a scenario such as "You are in jail, with one lock-pick, and the lock is Master level." In that, the chances of failing are very high without the perks, as at the level 70s lock-picking it only takes two, extremely light wrong turns for about a fourth of a second to break it. Is that a fun challenge? No, it's only frustrating because as with a high level werewolf, there isn't any room for error. And as a werewolf, the only three errors you can make are; Running off a cliff, attacking any magic user who knows any spells better than the three Damage over Time Novice Destruction spells(found out yesterday that they will usually kill you before you can even make it to attack range, zap zap zap dead), and getting hit by one power attack by any mid level creature. And as a high level player, what I am looking for is where it is better in some aspects than when I am in human mode. The balancing issues with that are that because of the "Feed to stay as a werewolf" ability, you could go on a rampage indefinitely. The best thing would be to give it a capped, maximum increased time that when you hit it, it stops adding 30 second to the duration. In fact an even simpler fix would be that Howl work on more powerful creatures, have it's strengths be more towards it's psychological effects, rather than it's physical. That way, they wouldn't have to modify the physical traits too much and it would be a tradeoff of being more vulnerable for more strategic play. That would bring the high level challenge up, and make it no longer an impractical battle choice. Place in a couple more quests that buff the werewolf up or make it have different, balanced, tradeoffs. Also, making those quests skill and player level based wouldn't hurt too much in a balancing point of view. Then make it so you can change it up with the underforge more than you can now(I am aware of the totems), and it would be a better werewolf. It would be much more interesting to play. As well as a better aspect of the game, rather than in the beginning being a kill all button, in the middle being a fun and good challenged(where I believe it is the most balanced), and in the end being a death-wish. Sounds like a pretty cool DLC idea to me in fact. That would also add many more viable RP possibilities.

Yeah, well I agree then. A vampires and werewolves DLC where they get more quests and tweaked balancing would be great to see...

Ugh.... this is what fan service will get you. A completely tacked on feature that should have remained in Bloodmoon. I agree it's pointless and makes no sense at all how you can pretty much get it after 1 fetch quest with the FG. Thats what happens when Beth listen to people who play TES just for Teh killing spreez!"!!11

Ignorant people: Annoying

This should be the title of your post.

I agree that the quest line made it way too quick and easy to become a werewolf, but personally I am glad they put them in the game...

There've been comments about one-handed and light armor affecting werewolf form abilities, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned: do the illusion perks that increase the maximum level of targets that illusion spells will affect also apply to the werewolf's fear power? Aspect of Terror, Kindred Mage, and (possibly) Master of the Mind are all likely candidates for this.

If the first two do work then it should be possible (with both perks) for the fear roar to affect all humanoid opponents, since (as I understand it) level scaling caps at 45.

Quite possibly - apparently the armour buffs work before you shift to beast form...

question

one handed effects werewolf attacks yes? if so what type of weapon is it?
sword
axe
or mace

i only ask so i can upgrade the correct perks

The Werewolf is a glass cannon. Sure, enemies cut through you like you're butter (especially if you're sued to running around in full Daedric or whatever), but your power attacks absolutely wreck people. That, along with the Fear ability (which is extremely easy to spam), turn you into a killing machine. It might not be particularly powerful, but even on Master difficulty, I've managed to massacre groups of enemies with ease.

Cool looking feature but a bit overrated.

I didn't like the werewolf form from the beginning.

Assuming werewolves actually do scale based on Light Armor and One-Handed, that's kind of ridiculous. It should be based on light OR heavy armor, and one-handed OR two-handed weapons. Knowing this, I'll bet the werewolf complainers are mostly two-hander wielding heavy armor warriors. The light armor dual wielders are probably too busy brutalizing enemies.

I dont use to frequntly but I do find it to be a bit of a glass cannon mainly due to the fact well your bigger easier target and unlike sowrd and armour you cant improve claws etc to make them better thus they tent to fall behind at least that what i feel but I find it to still has its uses as i remember lv 20s or so in a dungeon couldnt defeat a bunch of falmer nightprowlers change to were wolf use roar and cleaned the place up.however im not sure how it will work at higher lvs and if thats the case bethesda should improve it

may a skill tree perhaps or something

If you go to the top of page 3 on this topic you will find that I ran multiple tests for that and proved that one handed provides absolutely NO benefits to the claw attacks of a werewolf. I can further that point by saying that since werewolf attacks are unarmed attacks, and one handed perks affects only take place when you have a weapon in your hand, and because technically you don't have a weapon equipped, the perks do not apply. The only perks that help werewolf is the light armor level and it's first perk. In truth, one handed is actually what is benefiting from the claw attacks, ergo, you are gaining one handed experience. But past that there are no bonuses given to werewolf attacks from one handed.

I am a heavy armor wearing twohanded weapon using werewolf dissappointed player, so this would explain why I felt let down by the form. If this is all true and if illusion effects WW as well I may do a WW based playthrough spiking those abilities.

on master difficulty, you can only use werewolf if you have a tank with you or if its a 1v1 fight you can outmaneuver with your extra speed, you loose all armor and +100 health is nowhere near enough to survive most mobs.
if the fear shout works you can also use it to quickly finish off mobs as they run, and its easier to do the sprinting charge attack that does devastating damage.

ugh... im hearing all this talk about one-handed and light armor effecting werewolves... so um, when did you see fit to tell me this game?

this is a real problem i think... without any obvious governing attributes to scale a werewolf's claws and health and w/e, beth just tacked on 2 pretty random skills as governing then NEVER told you about it.

aside from basic level scaling, there is no way to improve your were-form unless your a lightly armored one-handed user in which case your improving it unintentionally. thats a brilliant system beth... its not like we are consistently get better gear and perks in our human forms or anything, that wont possibly create MAJOR scaling issues.

you know, i wouldnt mind level scaling so much if beth wasnt so TERRIBLE at implementing it :banghead: . what is with all the completely arbitrary level limits on certain abilities? roar doesnt work past level 25?! wouldnt any self-respecting scaling system make abilities work on creatures up to a certain level above or below you and not just stop working once it hits the completely static level limit?