i read a lot of threads about this, but this time i lll respond... i think that iron dagger spamming is a myth, as they seem to NOT give the same exp everytime regardless of level..i had a few skill points left and lots of ore in my mid 30s so i decided to level up smithing a bit with the iron dagger method. In the beginning, they gave me a level each 3 daggers or so, the higher i went in levels the more daggers i had to produce, so there IS a diminishing return, i got the most exp per level if i smithed the next tier of armor/weapons... so i personally think that iron dagger spaming is a myth, because i havent encountered it personally

Because a rep from Bethesda sit behind you with a gun to your head forcing you to use/create said items.

By beating it up and taking advantage of its good nature.

Every skill in the game matters how much you use it. So if you make 1000 Iron daggers you will get level 100 smithing and jump right to making Dragon armor. So it's super easy. You can do the same thing if you hold the block button while a mudcrab is attacking. It will mass level blocking while you take little - no damage. Alchemy is just mixing randomy crap you find together , and it doesn't even have to work, lock picking you can break 5000 locks and level up 50 times. So there is no challenge.

Smithing is lots of fun, I used the Iron Dagger option when i was about 20, was done around level 25.
I got some dragon bones and scales and made dragon armor, takes some time to get enough scales though.
I also found some stuff making everything you improve much better,
1 amulet 20%, 1 ring 12%, 1 pair of greaves 12% thtas 46% better, plus i'm using blacsmith potions with 50% improvment.

So everything is twice as good as normal, Full dragon armor pluss deadric sword and bow... Totaly awesome

LOL, you guys are hilarious. If getting your smithing to 100 is "abuse", then can't you abuse every skill in the game too by getting it to 100 too?

I smith enough to have a new suit whenever new materials become available.

I hadn't thought to just spam daggers. Thanks

The truth has been spoken! All bow down before our noble truth speaker! On a serious note, this guy could not be more correct. Well said sir!

Alright, firstly, smithing is about as balanced as it can be while still attaining all of the features. Upgrading Daedric armor to legendary? So what? You still need to buy or mine the ebony ingots and even then, stronger enemies and swarms can still give a decent challenge if you're playing higher that Adept. Not to mention that unless you're using enchanting, which really is kind of overpowered, magic spells will kill you very fast.

Compare ANY daedric freaking artifact bloody weapon to something you, with less than 10 hours of smithing in real game time, can make in 1 minute.

Gods make worse weapons than you -- and your weapons don't even NEED to be enchanted to be better than the weapons gods made!

Remember to wear store-bought fortify smithing gear when forging, and store-bought fortify smithing potions.

If you want to completely break the game, invest in enchantment level 100 and create your own fortify smithing gear with an fortify enchantment potion effect on you.

THEN if you want the remains of the game to never be found, invest in 100 alchemy, and make enchanting potions with enchanted gear, and use that potion to create better fortify alchemy gear, and use that enchanted fortify alchemy gear to make potions that fortify enchantment, and use that potion to make better fortify enchantment gear, and use that gear to make better fortify alchemy gear...

...
And then use the best possible fortify alchemy gear, and make some perfect fortify smithing and fortify enchantment potions.
Then, you make fortify smithing gear.
Then you smith the daedric weapon and armor using that gear and that fortify smithing potion.


...

Even now, you can do worse:
You can send Skyrim to oblivion:
Enchant your armor, with "elemental resistance" on one enchantment slot, and "increase weapon damage" on the other armor slots -- for up to 160% extra damage from your armor added to your weapon of choice.
For weapon, just enchant one with absorb health and chance to paralyze and another with fire and cold damage... or whatever.
You will now one-shot anything in the game.
It'll only take you 10 minutes with 100 enchantment, 100 alchemy and 100 smithing.

Leveling alchemy is the hardest. Then comes enchantment. Smithing is very easy.

Alchemy should not be able to make enchantment, alchemy or smithing potions.
Enchanters should not be able to make fortify alchemy or fortify smithing gear.
Smithing should not make better weapons than anything that can be found in the game, because that makes adventuring almost pointless, because you're the best smith in the world and nothing in any cave out there CAN be better.

NPCs should be able to enchant stuff FOR you. Extreme prices are in order, and have the player wait a week ingame. 10 000 gold for one proper high level enchantment?
The same for smithing; Give a level 100 NPC smith a deadric heart and ebony, and tell him what you want -- and he should be able to make it for, say 50 000 gold.

Great post

What I personally interpret as "abusing smithing" is when you walk out of Whiterun for the first time in full Legendary Deadric gear (hint: the alchemist sells Deadra Hearts fairly often).

I've found if I refuse to buy any crafting materials (no ore, ingots, ingredients, or soul stones) then enchanting/smithing/alchemy feel like they level "properly." I also only level smithing with the highest tier stuff I can make (got up to 81 easily, trying to find that ebony mine, no spoilers please).

Also if you use the alch/enchant/smith loop to produce +130% smithing potions and a 4 piece set of +29% smithing per piece from enchanting stuff gets ridiculous. Although it's no until you start adding in +47% weapon damage enchants on your regular gear that it gets really bad (and maybe using +130% weapon damage potions). All said and done (with perks) you can easily hit ~300-400 damage with one-hand weapons and bows before the potions and sneak attacks. (this doesn't consider the fortify restoration potion thing either)

If that's what people want to do I couldn't care less since it doesn't effect me. I played around with all that in one game and found it just ruined it for me. I had no reason to go do anything. I didn't need money, loot, gear, or anything so I started over and self-imposed the rules I laid out in my long buried, never read thread: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1292467-a-few-rules-i-use-to-solve-some-balance-issues/page__p__19480027#entry19480027

By following those rules I've gotten up to level 46 and I'm still challenged in the game and I'm still finding things I can use. I'm wearing a mixture of orc and dwarf armor with an ebony war axe and a dwemer bow. The lack of ebony ingots/ore in game (I find some as treasure) keeps me from leveling smithing to past 81 right now (no dragon armor) and from being able to upgrade ebony gear to be better than my orc/dwarf stuff. (I also only go places I have quests for, or that I pass by going to a quest, so I'm not running off to get that uber stuff I know where is, my character doesn't know that stuff and has no reason to go there, yet)

Personally, I don't think there's any such thing as "abusing" a single player game. If you're having fun with it, you're doing it right. If you've done something to stunt your fun, then you're doing it wrong. Simple as that.

My personal opinion is that powerleveling a couple of skills so that you can bulldoze through the game ruins the fun, but you might not feel that way. In any case, it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks. You're the one who put money and time into the game, so you should be able to play it how you want.

I cant believe vendors sell daedra hearts. Just remove that and other rare items from the vendors and it would be much more difficult

Make them so you have to kill the daedra instead or find the ore

Hey guys!

Did you know that there's a damage reduction cap on armor? Armor works kind of like this: Armor rating VS. Damage dealt UP TO 80%. If your Displayed AR is 567+ (which is easily achievable without "Alchemy looping") your actual damage reduction won't go up any further. Presuming first no enchant bonuses but maximum perk bonuses in your armor type, including matching set: Improved Daedric OR Dragonbone with a base 100 smithing both surpass this cap (without even bothering with a shield). Dragonscale doesn't without a shield, but comes very close.

So what's the point of the alchemy looping, enchant boosting method? A) Wear very low tier armor improved beyond max. AR, because you like how it looks. Wear nothing but boots, gloves, helmet, and your skivvies and still have maximum armor, to show off. C) Don't take armor perks, use the Stone power that gives you the "armor weight removed" perk effect, and still have max armor.

Source: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Armor

Overall good info about armor. As to the question I quoted, the answer is weapons (if you want to anyway, I feel like it "breaks" the game so I don't).

You forgot about the weapon... which can one shot bosses.

This. It's part of the loop of doom. Also in general it's THE god skill with no downsides, all upsides and it actually makes up for the downsides of some of the weak noncombat skills. While the loop affects a lot of things if done weapons have a general issue of the way damage bonuses stack and the ones available. Though this is less an issue of weapons and more an issue of how bonuses were set up in the game(or in magic's case the lack there of)

On here it means the poster doesn't like whatever it is, and since they dislike it surely it must be some kind of cheat.

It only started to bother people when those dudes doing it got onto the forums here and decried the fact that the game mechanics were broken. It was too easy, no challenge, I play on master and one shot bosses etc.

I dont think anyone seriously cares how anyone else chooses to play the game, or chooses to rationalise those choices.

I think maybe it might be the complaining that is the problem.

I reckon, find a nice exploit, work hard at it, enjoy it and be thankful that it is there. Hell, even talk about it.

Or, more simply, enjoy your Skyrim, your way. Easy.

It's an issue for the same reasons why the leveling system and level scaling in Oblivion was a problem. Rule Zero Fallacy does not change this.

Iron daggers because you then take petty soul gems and enchant them to bring their value to 1700 lol

good point, lol. Enchanting and Smithing together are both too easy to level and when mixed together insanely overpowered...

I'll admit, the system needs work, but just because an ability is available to you doesn't mean you have to use it. If you have to complain about exploits, complain about the console. Don't be afraid to challenge yourself by not using something that is clearly overpowered. I have 100 smithing and enchanting, but I've deliberately not made op armor with it.