I would gladly see it nerfed, but the feedback loop left alone. Best of both worlds, it's possible to smith and stay sane without only using 10% of the tree and if someone wants, they can go batty.

Your choice, doesn't work as advertised on higher difficulty levels other than novice, exercise self control. *yawn*

and have you tried it ?

because i have (less that 8 hours ago) and you can't do that.

the possible improvements you can make to a crafting gear set by taking a pot then enchanting it top out at 29% making the max blacksmithing potion you can make with an alchemy set 147% (and that's using that Falmer helmet bug so you have 5x+29% alchemy gear items instead of just 4)

there are also a rather concise discussions on at least two of the games wikis detailing the exact limitations that are actually in place.

Not a problem if this gets fixed, same with the fortify restoration glitch, but both of these (along with the alchemy/enchanting loop) must be sought out and actively taken advantage of, not even things that need to be consciously avoided, far bigger concerns to worry about than peoples lack of self control, such as consistent PS3 lag issues, XBox texture issues, PC CTD issues, major quest glitches,, not to mention zero magic resistance, backwards invincible dragons etc. Issues thread at last count was up to some 360 issues IIRC, forget about BGS wet nursing babies, fix real issues.

Lack of self control should be far, far, FAAAAAR down BGS list of things to patch, they need to ignore the empty vessels that make the most noise and fix real gamebreaking issues. Not stupid little baby issues.

Not true. Create a set of fortify alchemy gear. All +25%. Create fortify restoration potions. Drink. Unequip then reequip fort alch gear. Now they;'re like +39%. Repeat and it goes into an exponential loop so you can create massively OP gear. It only last while the potion effects are active, but the fortify enchanting and smithing potions you cam make appear to have no upper limit and aren't limited by the effects of the fort rest potion (I couldn't be bothered seeing if there were upper limits, but got potions that were +500% smithing and +500% enchanting, was able to create a sword with 4,000 damage and +250 frost and fire damage). Like I said though, this is not something you can really do just by accident, and shouldn't be a priority bug fix in any way.

I don't think it should be fixed at all, for that that reason; however I would like to see basic smithing calmed a bit.

then that's a bug with fortify restoration potions not anything to do with smithing or enchanting.

the 29% caps are there and are obviously intended as i said previously.

this, that you describe, and the falmer hat is a bug...i'm still not going to call it an "exploit" mostly because i agree with what you said before and it seems some people don't know the difference...

PS still to get the +smithing pickaxe and there is also the Dwarfen smithing perk...

I don't spend any time smithing or enchanting with my character. If anything were to be changed or gimped it would really svck for me. I've made one set of fine hide armor, and a fine hunting bow. I'm afraid I expect my smithing score to be 21 by the time I reach level 50. I'm becoming quite the alchemist though, and I'm hoping at some point it will help me make up for the time I've spent neglecting my Enchanting and Smithing Stats.

I feel like anything you do to limit people from powerleveling things will have the opposite effect on me. If I hardly ever use a stat and it advances slowly, and then you gimp it, I'll have to powerlevel for it to advance at all.

Fortifying my Smithing or Enchanting with a potion is my only hope of ever advancing my bow beyond fine quality, or adding some decent enchants.

Please dont gimp my alchemy. Please don't nerf any alchemy enhancing equipment.

If you're not doing ridiculous things then I suspect you won't even notice if they fix that exponential loop.

I worked up my smithing (and just my smithing) and noticed the game got siginificantly easier which I fixed by raising the difficulty a notch.

The most important thing they can do is give additional difficulty levels so that no matter how powerful you are you can still get a challange.

For future games they may want to think through their crafting system a bit more. Maybe I missed it but I don't recall anything like that exponential loop in previous TES games.

I think it's some weird combination of using enchanting to make boosted blacksmithing potions, then using blacksmithing enchants on gear to boost your blacksmithing output by some ungodly percentage and create weapons that can 1-shot everything in the game.

Just taking blacksmithing and ONLY blacksmithing isn't considered any kind of abuse.

Abusing, by using a mechanic in the game to make things extremely easily rather than doing what's fun. (Fun as in harder, as in you have to work for it.)

Let's say, purchasing a lot of ingots, forge something crappy like a lot of daggers, enchant them with poor enchants, sell them. This gains you levels in smithing, enchanting and quite a bit of gold for barely any work at all.
However, the way I play is that I only mine the ore myself. I don't forge unless I can gather the materials on my own, or find the materials in 'TREASURE' chests, not simple, regular chests. Some list of restrictions on myself to prevent me from being bored:

• Only loot Boss-monsters. No regular monsters, unless it's ingredients(Alchemy/Cooking).
  
• Only loot Expert/Master locked chests.
  
• Only loot the chests with a treasure-chesty look. Like those found in most dungeons at the very end, often guarded by a strong(er) mob.
  
• Only loot stuff in secret rooms or rooms when the "Treasure/Secret found!"-sound is being played.
  
• May only buy new gear, unless forging it on your own(or looted in any situation like those stated above).
  
• Must mine your own ore unless found in any of those above.
  
• Must catch your own souls, in soulgems you have either purchased or earned(again, situations above).
  
• Do not abuse bugs, such as standing on a stone to kill a mob that can't reach you. Can't win? Run.
  
• Do not use Barbas.
  
• Dragons aren't a resource.
  
• Don't sell potions made through alchemy unless it's something you're proud over.
  
• Don't sell enchanted items which you haven't crafted with honesty, as in real weapons you actually value.
  
• Don't sell crafted gear(blacksmithing) that you don't feel any pride over. (As what blacksmith or enchanter would sell bad items, and have his name ruined for making crap?)
  
• Don't kill without motive.
  
• Accept your punishment, pay your dept or go to jail. If you have 25 gold in bounty, there is no reason for you to run and risk being killed. It's an absolute last resort.
  
• Don't accept companions as meat-shields.
  
• Don't help anyone since they're asking for it. If there's not a "No" option in the dialogue, press TAB to exit and decline the offer. Especially if you already have a goal set, like visiting the greybeards. That's an immense honor and is not to be delayed.
  
• Prioritize right(see above note).
  
• Turn off Compass, Map & Quest Markers, & Crosshair.

I can't be assed to write more, but there's a lot of things like this. This kept it alive for me a bit at least.

TL;DR
Gimp yourself. Gimp yourself good!

These are the same type of gamers that would spend 50 hours of their lives just to reach lvl 2 so they can brag about it online. Which makes no difference in the real world because the dozens of hours wasted in their lives is on a single-player game, of which only they bear witness to their "heroic feats" like killing a simulated dragon in a virtual world while using the default items...I play a game as a pure form of escapism, because I love the entertainment value, not to puff out my chest and brag about it online..Saving a civilian from a criminal/burning building would be something to brag about....Yet real heroes never brag about it!

Making 100 daggers (or however many you need to make) sounds like a real boring way to waste time in Skyrim. If you did that, well, I guess you achieved what you role-played

actually, its quite the opposite, people who do that then come on here and complain that the game is too easy, even on master, and want it changed to take into account their abusing.

Noone cares how you play the game here, they do, however, care and get frustrated if you insist on breaking your own game and then coming on here and complaining about it as if it is a wide-ranging problem effecting everyone and not isolated to dagger-bashers.

That's basically my motto for playing on Master and no complaints here. Sure, some skills could progress more slowly (like Tejón's nGCD + Progress mods did for Oblivion) but overall, its a nit-picky issue that is already being looked after.


Ditto. http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/613844102321708632/696800AA6B037DF79F11A2B0770D2A9C5117E5B2/.

That's your opinion. It shouldn't be you to tell us what fun should be. Unless you are the one who buys our games, your opinion means absolutely nothing in how grown advlts who purchase a videogame with their money should play a game, or what the definition of fun should be, save for responding in opposition to that opinion, or in support of.



Again, that's only Your game play style, if you want to play your game by taking the hard- road, fine, even admirable somewhat..But don't expect everyone else to conform to your way of thinking/playing..OOPS! Looks like I spoke too soon...Didn't read the bottom part yet...



Wow, you actually have spent some time making rules for us to actually follow on how to play our game?!

Wow!....

Then maybe we should just stop what we're doing, delete our characters, and have your list minimized so we can refer to it while playing your game? Amazing, absolutely amazing! *Massive face-palm*

I think, different people mean different things by "abusing smithing"

Some people apparently using smithing in any way is abuse, because they say they view it as Overpowered. And either the game is to easy or they are so great and skilled at gaming that they don't need it. I tend to not enjoy those posts.

However, the alterative meeting is to do things that are extreme to level up smithing early. Like fastravelling all around but up every ingot or piece of ore you can fit, spend hours or real (not game time) smithing junk items for skill points, use the wait function for shops to replenish and repeat until smithing is 100. That's something that I would think is "abuse"

By all means.

I encourage EVERYONE to make a character that maxes smithing and enchantment.

Have fun for an hour, untill you realize that the gear and challenges are a part of the fun in the game, and that taking out the thrill of finding new gear and thrill of the combat, there's only the story left.
The story is great, but you have to grind for many minutes between each scripted sequence and dialogue -- so you're better of watching a movie.

...

By all means, some people may have fun playing as a god before starting the main quest, but some of us likes to warn players about the exploit, or the very use of the smithing skill by itself, as it ruins the game.

Arguably, smithing 100 alone does not break the game -- but even the enchantments found on items in the game and in potions makes you the best smith that ever lived in Skyrim -- and your vanilla armor and sword better than any artifact.

...

Smithing, without ANY fortify smithing, is probably fine if items cannot be enchanted and upgraded -- and if there are better artifacts in the game than there are weapons that the newest smith in Skyrim can forge 10 days after seeing a forge for the first time in his life (2 hours of ingame playtime).
Enchantment, without ANY smithing, is probably fine.
Alchemy would be fine if it couldn't improve smithing or enchantment.

By all means, I'm not saying that players should not make the best weapons ever seen in the Elder Scrolls games 3 days after their character escaped deathrow, two days after their character picks up a smithing hammer for the first time in their lives.
But I believe it will ruin immersion for all but the most prevailent powergamers out there.

Once you deal 1500 damage per hit and have perfect enchantments on all your gear slots.
What else is there but finishing the story on godmode?

...
It simply feels like pressing the cheat codes.
It may not be cheating, but I still feel like I've cheated, and I have wasted 10 hours on a character that became god before he killed his first dragon.
It was first when I stopped bothering to loot enemies I realized what I'd done;
I had cheated myself, and basicly forced myself into restarting the game.

I want to be happy when I find a diamond in the game, not be like; "Psh, whatever do I need a diamond for?!?!?"

I want to go "Wow!" when I find an artifact, not "Lol -- I made three ones just like that yesterday, only better..!"

Just want to give my 2 cents about this.

As previously pointed out before, in a singleplayer only game, one that offers as much freedom and mod support as this series allows, one should be allowed to custom tailor the game to one's liking.

I admit that after I beat the main quest, as vanilla as possible, the next joy in these games for me is making flavor character to actually play as, or sometimes i just build concept characters. One of my pet peeves about RPGs is that they tend to take you from zero to hero in a few days time. And that is kinda breaking the suspense of disbelief... the old... this guy has been crafting for his entire life and i outskilled him in a few days of training. I prefer to start out very competent and improve in small increments.

In oblivion I made a necromancer (from diablo) type character...a heavy armor meleer with conjuring abilities.. usually a small sqaud of weak minions and the ressurect spell that wasn't legally available to the player. I policed it as much as I could as to make it as balanced as I could. I had a blast and I didn't have a god character.

Is this legal from the rules point of view? heck no it's not. I woudl never do this on a multiplayer game. But on a singleplayer i can just go to town with my flavor character.

I also like rogue type characters, Say I want the perk that allows you to sneak without movement penalties, but I don't want the prerequisite perk of no longer triggering traps... I WILL skip that perk without as much as a second thought.

At the end of the day, if some players like to play an avatar of god on earth, by all means let them... they simply lose the morality to complain the games is boring an offers no challenge.

Cheers.

Yeah, that's probably why so many racing games provide infinite amounts of NOX boosts and force players to restrict themselves.
Or why there are so many platform games with infinite lives, and have players kill themselves when they don't bother anymore.

Seriously?

I agree with you. There is a lot of mis-directed anger going on. Anyone can play this game how they want, and shouldn't be upset or angry over how others play it.

That being said, one has to use good judgement when playing to make sure their own game stays fun. When it stops being fun, people shouldn't be on here complaining about Bethesda or the game, claiming they have to go "out of their way" to avoid making it too easy. If they want to keep it from being too easy, then in reality, they should stop going out of their way at early levels to make sure it becomes too easy. I'm a level 27 Nord, and still haven't found the 500 iron ingots needed to get to 100 smithing ( I am too dumb to think of making leather only items). If they are going out of their way to find 500 ingots, then make the 500 daggers to get to 100 skill level, their anger should be at themselves for doing so, not at Bethesda for leaving the possibility. The same holds true for the other side of the argument. I hold no anger towards those that want to power level, or find ways to produce awesome weapons and armor that would make the game easy. If that holds their interest, then they should do it.

You can't be serious, why these stupid rules?
It's a game and should be fun, making a bunch of dumb rules is killing the spirit of the game.

I've looked at your list, and I don't and will never follow any of these rules, why?
It would not be fun anymore, and then why would I play the game?

If you want the game to be as hard as possible, you should go around naked with only a dagger...

No one's derogatory towards them because of how they play THEIR game. No one cares really. It's the annoying ones that say "OMG smithings broken it's too powerful!!!"
Well DERP don't make [censored] daggers for three hours on end, or at least don't complain about the results.

I did that.

Quit my job as the dragonborn to become a full time iron smith.

After manufacturing 1000 iron daggers I suddenly discovered I had the ability to produce a full set of dragon-bone armor which made me invincible. Much easier and safer than adventuring!