What is Spell-crafting? : V - Skyrim

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:36 pm

A scripted event is anything in the game that is controlled by a script. This can be quests, spells, anything. They are much more versatile, as they can include other scripted effects or hardcoded effects. A hardcoded effect would be something like Fire Damage. It has some set parameters like the ways it can be cast, the default damage, and stuff like that. Some things can be modified, but it will always look and perform the same way, more or less.

For the other questions:
1. I'm not quite sure what you mean here, as most of the magic effects in Skyrim are hard coded, just like Oblivion. They have a certain effect or effects that you cannot change without changing every spell that relies on it.

2. Several spells would not be able to transfer from Oblivion easily, as there is no base effect for them in Skyrim. You could always add the spell effects, but some might not work at all and others might rely on scripts.

I'm still having trouble seeing the issue. Someone said Oblivion's magic/spells were hard coded and then drew the distinction that Skyrim's magic/spells was scripted based. I don't get why Skyrim can't have Spellmaking if both Oblivion's and Skyrim's magic/spells are a mix of hard code and scripting.

All I know is that 1] I'm very unhappy without spellmaking, 2] my first mage svcked and switched to melee/stealth... so I've already hit all 3 styles in the first go around, and 3] I have no desire to start a 2nd character under the current state of things and after just 3 months Skyrim has no replay value and has been shelved where Oblivion had me for years across multiple platforms.

It irks me to no end to think this is what I was looking forward to for three years and when I think about how I'm probably going to be stuck for another ~5 years waiting to have a chance at an Elder Scrolls game made by a Bethesda team who learned from Skyrim that, "yes, Spellmaking is actually a big deal to a large enough portion of players".... I want to stick a few pins in a Todd Howard voodoo doll.

As far as I'm concerned, Bethesda should port Oblivion's magic system complete with spellmaking and offer it as a free mod to substitute the current magic system.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:49 am

This brings up another point...

Yes I understand that it's a single player game, but regardless, there does still need to be a level of "balance".

(For the record, Enchanting and Smithing -are- balanced if you don't power level them, and instead use them naturally. I use both skills regularly on my characters, and have never been overpowered for it - because I don't spam iron daggers all the way to 100)

With dual casting, just how overpowered would mages be, being able to cast up to 4 or more effects at a time (2 multiple effects spells equipped, one in each hand), it would give magic users huge advantages to non magic users, even more so than Spellmaking did in past games.

Spellmaking would be a mess with this current system.

I too was originally disappointed when I heard that it wasn't in, but once I sat and looked at it, I just don't see how it will work with the current mechanics.

Easy solution:

Custom spells come at the cost of not being able to dual cast them.

That's the price you pay.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:37 pm

Easy solution:

Custom spells come at the cost of not being able to dual cast them.

That's the price you pay.

That's all?

If that's the case, dual casting can make sure the door doesn't hit it on the way out.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:23 pm

That's all?

If that's the case, dual casting can make sure the door doesn't hit it on the way out.

Except custom spells could have the potential to be far more powerful than dual wielding.

A more powerful single spell or lesser powerful dual casted spell is a fair balance.

It's the same concept as using a 2handed weapon vs dual wielding. 2handed does more single hit damage but dual wielding allows you to make weaker, but faster attacks

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:27 am

Except custom spells could have the potential to be far more powerful than dual wielding.

A more powerful single spell or lesser powerful dual casted spell is a fair balance.

It's the same concept as using a 2handed weapon vs dual wielding. 2handed does more single hit damage but dual wielding allows you to make weaker, but faster attacks

Exactly, I'm not seeing the downside of losing Dual Casting. In the ~200 hrs of my first and only character I used dual casting maybe 100 times... and only for Destruction spells. It doesn't add a thing to gameplay. If it really is the case that Spellmaking is lost because of dual wielding, then never have so many given up so much for so little in return.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:52 pm

Spell-crafting is the ability to take the effects of a spell you know and make a stronger or longer version.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:00 pm

Spell-crafting is the ability to take the effects of a spell you know and make a stronger or longer version.

Or combine spells you know. Boost a skill and bound a weapon. Frenzy those in 15' and fear within 5', or boost the skills/health of those you frenzy.

Combining multiple spells and using them on NPCs, both friend and foe, is where the real fun of Spellmaking lies. Maxing out single spells is for the unimaginative.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:25 am

That's because when the 'smithing is op' threads were happening enough people jumped up and down about the complainers that eventually they stopped complaining or went away. Same thing happened with the 'magic is broken', 'destruction is broken', 'enchanting is op', 'I can't kill a dragon with telekinesis and a spoon' topics.

These discussions (smithing) went away for several reasons:

0. They went away because everyone said what they had to say.. I cannot count how many I remember seeing/writing in.
1. It is voluntary, and the extent to which the power is taken is something for you to decide- either way, you will be the only one in your universe to be able to do - whatever you decide.
2. It is needed for RP- people who want to be powerful and yet have a look or style are able to do so because of smithing and not be handicapped.
3. For some people there is a draw of being uber-god-destroyer-killer-super
4. Everytime the discussion came up it inevitably turned into a balance discussion (one of the stupidest things to argue for in a single player game.)

Oh- and these people didn't go away, as you evidence, they still lurk and show the seeping wounds whenever they can somehow tie it into a thread. Now i'm a hypocrite

Can't find the smithing is OP discussions? Use the search bar on the top right- type in smithing.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:55 pm

In Warhammer I guess the designers wanted it that way, but I doubt that designers of the magic system in Morrowind wanted to have mages become overpowered by combining burden with levitation...that just doesn't seem like the grand conclusion to an epic story of a mage...

And how exactly would that be so radically different from casting them as two separate spells one after the other? You save a few seconds casting them in one spell and pay a higher mana cost, that's the only difference.

Uggg, I hate this discussion because people start treating it as a game-defining mechanic of the Elder Scrolls series and now that Skyrim is without spell making that makes it a game breaking issue. The entire lot of people screaming that Skyrim is ruined without spell making can now take a seat right next to the people that scream about there being no spears.

Game defining? Maybe not, magic defining? Yes. With spellmaking TES magic system was fun, versatile, and unique. Without it it's merely another generic magic system similar to pretty much any game that has magic. It's removal definitely took the magic out of magic. I'd take the fun, freedom, and substance of the unique spellmaking system over the flash of the generic system we have now anyday.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:17 pm

Spellmaking is apparently the process through which NPCs can experiment with magic and create new spells, but the player can't.

Doh.

Damn that J'zargo...

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:22 pm

Game defining? Maybe not, magic defining? Yes. With spellmaking TES magic system was fun, versatile, and unique. Without it it's merely another generic magic system similar to pretty much any game that has magic. It's removal definitely took the magic out of magic. I'd take the fun, freedom, and substance of the unique spellmaking system over the flash of the generic system we have now anyday.

Absolutely this. For mages, the changes in the magic system makes the progression from Oblivion to Skyrim akin to the progression from Dragon Age: Origins to Dragon Age II.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:05 am

The thing where I could shoot a fireball at an enemy which summoned a daedroth at the same time. Cause you know, why not? I miss frostcrag spire

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:24 pm

Isn't it funny how the magic system looked stupendous in the trailers?

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:59 am

Isn't it funny how the magic system looked stupendous in the trailers?

Well, the additions were very nice. We just didn't know what they had cut.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:19 am

Isn't it funny how the magic system looked stupendous in the trailers?

Bethesda's magic system was all about looks, it was designed for looks. Too bad it wasn't designed to be good, or fun, or relatively useful.

Bethesda just... I don't know what they were thinking. How could they gut the magic system for the sake of visual effects and think they had a winner?