Well You make your own classes yes, it requires some creativity which I see Morrowind has ripped from some.

Totally like it, Classes restrict my character type... i dont need a Class to make a Mage or Archer only Character, too limiting to have them, same with stats... its pure nonsense! its olmost 2012! leave the Stats to the 80s.

The Steed Stone is my favourite Stone now and I didn't touch it in previous games. I feel that when picking I'm torn among the Stones that I think are best instead of trying to pick the least lame of the options we were forced to pick from in Morrowind and Oblivion. Honestly, I would have been happy to just skip picking a Sign in those games.

Some people don't like to be bound to one play style. I for one never even paid attention to my birthsign. In Morrowind, I picked the tower so that I could bust into the warehouse in Seyda Neen early on. In Oblivion, my birthsign was usually of no consequence to me.

My signature should answer this point adequately.

I will have to agree that the guild questlines are unfortunately short.

I actually like the perks system and I think the Stones allow for more choice. You don't have to lock in something you select from a menu for the whole game. It helps with immersion, too, in that regard.

I'm torn, honestly. I really enjoyed the old system (I'm thinking of Morrowind's right now, as that's the latest TES game I've played), but there are certainly drawbacks, like "efficient leveling" and "max leveling." The new system is much simpler-- just be your character and you get better at that stuff and you don't have to worry about putting points into the right places at the right times and maxing your character. On the other hand, it also sacrifices depth, and in several ways consequence. :shrug:

Loving the game as a whole, though.

Uhm... sorry just re read this.. a few times & seriously? What happened to Agility & Speed? Without them thiefs can just invest in health and suddenly they are pretty much the same as a light warrior.. with the added bonus of retardedly strong sneak attack. And I cbf going into the rest.

Hahahahahahaha I used to do that too!!! For a few characters anyway.. (the tower thingy) But yeh.. well I liked them. Everyone has differing opinions though.

You still fail to awnser his question.

I think the game is perfect the way is it. I can play however I want, whenever I want, and am able to change at the drop of a hat. I like being able to level up every skill to 100 if I want to, change my stone or join all the guilds in the game. The perk point system is good, because if you happen to misuse a perk point, it's a choice you need to deal with. Or, you can save you points until you feel ready to use them. I think the game is perfect the way is it. I'm happy with all the changes they have made.

Dunno, feels like all thwe games up to this one would disagree with you about this. TES is and has (based on the four games before this) been about a free open world that I can pay my class in. One of the few holdouts against the stupid respec garbage WoW started (well not started but they feel like it to me lol). I cant see how TES was all about this when the fifth game in the series breaks away from what the four games leading up to it have done as far as classes and stuff goes. Its new, it doesnt make it better. Feels to me like what the last four games did WAS what the game WAS all about lol

Still PLAYING the game, is just a major dent in my enjoyment of it.

warrior:
"You can't buy respecs though? "

You could? Lol I never found retrainers in Oblivion O.o Or Morrowind for that matter

"the standing stones are a really stupid way to just pad out the birthsign mechanic. instead of picking a birthsign that adds a layer or personality to my character i just run up to a rock and click it for the exact same effect. what an improvement...

the perk system has ironically done the exact opposite thing it was supposed to. instead of allowing you greater freedom, the slightest mis-spent perk is a major loss to what you can do with your character because perks are much more valuable than attribute increases. with no classes, you have no real sense of identity and can level up unintentionally because every single skill up contributes now.

and also in contradiction to the intent of allowing you more freedom, your race choice is now the only thing defining your starting skill levels, so on harder difficulties newbs would certainly find themselves leaning towards certain skills out of necessity, leveling in ways they never intended just because they picked a certain race.

so in short, the only thing that has changed is that i now have less choice and am punished for not knowing the value of certain perks ahead of time. not really an improvement to me."
Pretty much what Im seeing too actually

Classes are in Hell where they belong if you ask me. They gave common archetypes to newer players, but most everybody made a custom class, rendering the point moot. I would have liked to add bonuses beyond racial ones, however; say, change a + 5 lockpick to a + 5 Alteration or somesuch. Would have helped roleplaying a bit.

Attributes are more iffy. While the whole +1 or +5 depending on if you grinded the good skill was awful (especially in Oblivion, but that's a whole other can of worms), they still added a layer of roleplay; replacing them with simple + stam/HPMagicka doesn't quite cut it. I feel like they could have reworked the system rather than axe it and call it a day.

Birthsigns I don't really like. It was one of the toughest choices because the bonuses are pretty massive; now you just fast-travel to a different one and suddendly have weightless armor and +100 carry weight. Yeah for not making me do an actual choice, Bethesda. Why not a respect stone while we're at it?

I love the new system. Tes is about giving the player freedom. The old system limited your freedom. Now you can specialize in more skills and even specialize within skills. For example, in the conjuration tree you can choose the bound weapon perks and ignore the others. This results in a character with a specialization in bound weapons. . There are so many possibilities along with standing stones that make each character unique. This is what I look for in an rpg. The ability to make my character truly unique.

I think the guilds are a massive improvement from the previous games. They actually have their own stories. It isn't just a bunch of tasks rising in difficulty and/or complexity anymore. The guilds have much more meaning. The guild quest lines I've experienced so far have even had a twist or two. Now that I think about it the guild quest lines are actually more interesting than the main quest.

So your saying character creation has been limited because you can no longer jump around on your way everywhere so you can grind out a character that can jump slightly higher?

In Morrowind, putting points into short blades meant NOTHING in terms of how you actually played. So long as you leveled the skill you could play them with a tank. You can do that in Skyrim too, but if you want to get the most out of them, you have to use them with sneak. Thats just as much freedom and MORE incentive to actually role play, all done in way that is much more intuitive and realistic.

TES as graduated to a deeper level of immersion then kiddie D&D cliche's.

Is there Gas in mines? I lit a torch an there was an explosion... Unless I stepped on a trap I missed

and TOO much freedom is a bad thing too. Like EVE used to be before they put in the tutorial things to start with. They used to just drop you in the middle of space and be like "have fun". Lots of options, and no direction. It kills it for me given that I have ADD and need SOME kind of structure or I get bored (or keep restarting over and over and never play the game).

The lack of class as someone el;se said, makes my feel like guy have no identity. I WASNT one of those people (shouldnt be a surprise honestly with what Ive said so far) that made a new custom class every time I played. I looked for a class that meshed with what I was looking to play and levelled along those way lol. My favorite class so far was Sorcerer. Heavy armor/magic was fun.

At first when I heard about the removal of the class system I diddnt really care as you can call your character whatever you want in your imagination, however upon playing the game I actually sort of miss the being able to define which specific skills contribute to leveling up.

Birthsigns are still in the game more or less under a different system, doesnt make much difference but I do prefer the older system where you choose at character creation. Still such issues are pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.

Birthsigns represented a commitment. You picked one and lived with it through the entire game. Standing Stones can be swapped at will, because - gasp - what if the player doesn't like the stone he picked?

It's a minor, but clear, example of dumbing the game down for ADD kiddies.

I prefer no CC class, but I still think classes can play a very important role in the game.

For example, what if a quest will not trigger unless you have X amount of reputation points, or have an effective class level (ECL) of Y as a Priest. To be a priest at all, six or eight or a dozen skills, depending, need to be at least 25 (assuming the Oblivion base of 5, or the Daggerfall base of about 2). then every 5 levels your average improves, your ECL goes up 1.
If you're roleplaying restrictions, the system actually provides feedback that says "you're straying!", while if you're a JoaT, you have one more way you can feel good about your progress. But the key advantage is that it provides a mechanism for NPCs to react to you. The logical rule should be "highest ECL wins", except when people need help. Then all ECLs are checked.

However, not having a character creation class choice is, IMO, a good thing. The obvious counterpart that we're lacking is a method to give characters a personal feel right away. This could be done in a multitude of ways, but something like the Fallout 3 GOAT would be better than a flat point allocation. Didn't get the skills you wanted boosted? That tells me you were a wayward Tamrielic youth, only later realizing your true calling. Look at what Daggerfall did, what FO3 and FNV did, and then figure out how one might "get to know you" in the TES VI setting.


I never really liked the birthsigns, and I really, really never got into the constellation-based stones in Oblivion. Or Skyrim. It's been a problem of long-term usefulness, mostly. Playing as a Thief sign versus playing as a Tower sign? the uniqueness fades. Static bonuses and once a day powers don't hold their own in the long run. Skyrim... it pretty much comes down to "choose overpoweredness that ANYONE can have at any time." On the whole, Skyrim's the less desirable place to start trying to make the signs really useful and unique.

I dislike the changes to birthstones, they were a part of what your character was. Now it's just a changeable magic effect.

I don't think they've got the leveling right yet, but I wasn't that thrilled with oblivion leveling either.

This is really a matter of Freedom vs Consequence.

Sandbox vs RPG.

In either instance you can have both, but Bethesda is leaning to the left. I don't like it.

You can't have an RPG without Consequence.

Unfortunately, we all need to accept the current happenings with The Elder Scrolls games. Bethesda is the one to blame. I always liked TES games (Morrowind) because unlike Zelda, or even Final Fantasy games, it was always about decisions, impact of decisions, consequences and changing of story and peoples behaviors towards you. I was simply attracted to how your character develops into his own class with its own limitations, and expertise. With Zelda for instance, you follow a storyline, you have no classes... done. With Final Fantasy games, some you have classes some you dont, but you dont have freedom to change the outcomes of storylines etcetc.

Bethesda is to blame because it makes games like Morrowind, a game that is an "Elder Scrolls" game and it is what it is. Currently they release an "Elder Scrolls" game and they name it Skyrim. Now being that its an Elder Scrolls game, we the fans that have followed TES games since then, expect a certain style of game, when they totally give us something way out of left field. It is my opinion and mine only that Bethesda SHOUDLN'T have made it a TES game, and just named it plainly Skyrim. Now don't misunderstand me, I love playing Skyrim. I appreciate the game as it is, but its totally what TES games of past were NOT. Its kind of like Final Fantasy games turning into Zelda style games. As you could possibly see, there will be alot of negative following.

For some of us followers of the old TES style of games, we may just need to realize that THIS way is the way that Bethesda are proceeding with their new coming games and may possibly need to get off this train so to say. I understand that it may leave a bitter taste... but it is what it is.

I never liked the way Zelda was too casual(for me) to be taken serious. I call it casual because I dont have to sit there, and precisely plan out my armor, my stats, my abilities, to perform to the maximum potential; which is something I like in any non casual gaming experience, the old TES games(in other words: Morrowind =/= Zelda) I deem it casual because you can run the game, pick up, play, fight X monster be done with it. Skyrim feels like its Zelda with perks and levelups in it.

If you have ever played morrowind, you obviously can tell this TES experience is not what it used to be. Its not a bad thing at all, it just heralds the time that I as well as others, may need to just find another company to provide that which we like, or hell, even join up and make a game worthy of what TES used to be.

(for the inevitable influx of haters, flamers, neoTESfanboys and casual players being offended at my post; These views are mine and MINE alone, based on my OWN experiences and my own thoughts. These views are not intended to offend or butt-hurt anyone; my apologies in advance if such situations were created.)

The game plays great there are major RPG elements in there they are just not as 'in your face' as they where previously. The standing stones work the same way as birthsigns but you can change them if you need to. Your class is what you play, what to be mage play that way, want to be a theif play that way etc. perks are used to specilise your toon to your class.

Yes, because perks don't exist. And even if they did exist, it's not like you couldn't change them or anything. Oh, wait, no. You can't.

I don't use birthsigns stones at all. The fact that you can change them at will feels like some sort of ingame cheating.